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NEW EPISODE: This is where our conversation takes an even deeper turn.

Caleb shares the story of his personal confrontation with Christian nationalism—how an invitation to participate with Turning Point USA forced him to take a much closer look at the movement and the version of Christianity it was promoting. That investigation eventually led him to write his remarkable book, Disarming Leviathan: Loving Your Christian Nationalist Neighbor.

We also explore the rich biblical imagery behind the title. In Scripture, Leviathan represents the mysterious forces of chaos that only God can ultimately tame. Caleb uses that ancient symbol as a powerful metaphor for Christian nationalism itself—a force fueled by fear, political idolatry, and cultural anxiety over demographic change, political marginalization, and the perceived loss of traditional values.

But this isn't simply a critique. It's an invitation to faithful engagement. Caleb challenges us to respond not with condemnation but with empathy, courageous conversations, genuine listening, and radical hospitality.

For anyone struggling to relate to friends or family who have been drawn into the MAGA movement or Christian nationalism, Caleb offers thoughtful, practical wisdom that I believe you'll find both hopeful and deeply challenging.

Listen to Part 1 - From Neo-Nazi to Lead Pastor: Caleb Campbell's Extraordinary Journey

SHOW NOTES - including links to Caleb’s book and the When the Wolves Came Podcast

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