What do kindergarten counting concepts have to do with high school algebra? More than most teachers realize. In this episode, Joanie and Curtis sit down with Erin Wahler-Cleveland, founder of Roots and Wings Math, to explore how deep understanding of early and elementary mathematics lays the groundwork for everything that comes later — and what teachers at every grade level can do to better support that understanding.

Erin opens with a thought-provoking coordinate-plane framework that distinguishes between easy/hard (subjective) and simple/complex (objective). The key insight? As we gain expertise, complex things start to feel simple — and that's exactly what makes teaching so hard. Early numeracy lives in the easy yet complex quadrant, and its depth is routinely underestimated by the adults who teach it.

We discuss important instructional shifts for teachers at every level, and land on an important key takeaway: The central challenge of teaching mathematics is maintaining awareness of a complexity that has become invisible through expertise. The remedy — at both elementary and secondary levels — is giving teachers genuine learner experiences with the content they teach, paired with disciplined questioning practices that reveal student thinking rather than assume it.

Resources & Links Mentioned

• Roots and Wings Math – https://www.rootsandwingsmath.com/
• The Dunning-Kruger Effect - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
• Room to Grow Podcast – www.roomtogrowmath.com

In this episode of Room to Grow, Ali Martinez, Chief Program Officer for Math at Student Achievement Partners (SAP), joins Joanie and Curtis for a conversation about the math that matters. In the current era, math teachers face too much content and too little time to feel or be effective in allowing students the chance to learn math deeply.

Aly shared information about SAP’s national initiative to identify essential mathematics content for high school, and to integrate data science competencies. The work builds on COVID-era prioritization efforts and aims to address curriculum overload through systems-level change involving standards revision, instructional materials alignment, and cross-sector collaboration.

The conversation acknowledges and elevates the role of durable skills, the rising importance of data literacy, and the need for systemic change to realize these desired outcomes.

Be sure to check out these resources, referenced in this month’s episode.

• Learn more and stay in touch with Math that Matters resource: https://learnwithsap.org/math-that-matters/
• Durable skills in math https://learnwithsap.org/durableskills/
• High School redesign: https://learnwithsap.org/overlap-to-opportunity/
• Research into high school math textbooks https://learnwithsap.org/math/a-rare-look-inside-high-school-math-textbooks-and-what-publishers-say-needs-to-change/
• Coherence Map from Student Achievement Partners
• Data Science for Everyone website

In this episode, Curtis and Joanie sit down with Mahmoud Harding from Data Science 4 Everyone (www.ds4e.com) to explore the growing role of data science in K-12 education.

Mahmoud breaks down the key distinction between data science and data literacy — two terms that are often used interchangeably but carry very different meanings for educators and students alike.

The conversation dives into why data science matters for all educators right now, regardless of subject area or grade level, and why the time to act is today. And taking action doesn’t mean you need math expertise or to steer away from the standards and curriculum your students need to know!

Mahmoud also shares practical, accessible ways teachers can get started with data-centered lessons in their classrooms — regardless of grade level or content area.

Whether you're a curious educator or ready to dive in, this episode will leave you inspired to bring data to life for your students.

Resources:

● https://www.datascience4everyone.org/about (DS4E Homepage)

● https://www.datascience4everyone.org/resources (DS4E Resources)

● https://ds4e-org.github.io/CPN_rubric/ (DS4E Content Partner Network)

● https://ds4e-org.github.io/technologytoolkit/ (DS4E Technology Tools for working with data)

● https://datasciencelearning.org/ (K12 Data Science Learning Progressions)

● https://datasciencelearning.org/blog/five-basic-concepts-for-teachers-new-to-data-science (DS4E Blog: Five basic concepts for teachers new to data science)

● https://hkurzweil.github.io/ds4e-teacher-pd/frontmatter.html (DS4E Data Science Starter Kit)

Teaching math in 2026 is demanding in ways that are structural, cultural, and relentless — and yet the conversation about teacher sustainability rarely makes space for what math educators are actually carrying. In this episode, Curtis and Joanie get honest about burnout, purpose, and community in the math teaching profession.

Drawing on research from burnout science, teacher identity, and professional resilience, this conversation explores three ideas that don't get discussed enough: why burnout is a systemic signal rather than a personal failure, how math teachers can reconnect with a durable and honest sense of purpose when the hard days start to outnumber the good ones, and why professional community isn't a luxury — it's the infrastructure that makes long, sustainable careers possible.

This episode is for math teachers who are tired but not done. It won't tell you to practice more gratitude or look on the bright side. It will tell you the truth — and give you something useful to do with it.

Books:

● Burnout: The Secret to Unlocking the Stress Cycle by Emily Nagoski & Amelia Nagoskiwww.burnoutbook.net

● The Courage to Teach: Exploring the Inner Landscape of a Teacher's Life by Parker J. Palmerwww.couragerenewal.org/parker/writings/courage-to-teach

● Onward: Cultivating Emotional Resilience in Educators by Elena Aguilarwww.brightmorningteam.com/onward

● Mathematical Mindsets: Unleashing Students' Potential through Creative Math by Jo Boalerwww.youcubed.org/mathematical-mindsets

Organizations & Communities:

● Colorado Council of Teachers of Mathematics (CCTM)www.cctmath.org

● National Council of Teachers of Mathematics (NCTM)www.nctm.org

This episode of Room to Grow, Curtis and Joanie reflect on topics about which they have changed their minds. Although their minds have changed about different things, in their conversation, they have captured bigger ideas about what goes into changing one’s mind, and have applied that to what goes into changing a teacher’s practice. Importantly, the recognize that change is a highly personal experience and is an inevitable part of continued growth.

As you listen to Joanie’s thoughts about how students develop conceptual understanding, and Curtis’ thoughts about AI in math education, you may wish to consider these additional resources, referenced in this episode:

· NCSM guidance on AI in Math Education

· Adding It Up report from the National Research Council

· Principles to Actions from NCTM and NCTM’s “Teacher’s Guide to Reasoning and Sense Making”

· Pam Harris’ Math is Figureoutable

Did you enjoy this episode of Room to Grow? Please leave a review and share the episode with others. Share your feedback, comments, and suggestions for future episode topics by emailing roomtogrowmath@gmail.com . Be sure to connect with your hosts on X and Instagram: @JoanieFun and @cbmathguy.

This episode of Room to Grow, Curtis and Joanie welcome Zandra de Araujo to the podcast. Zandra and her colleagues, Sam Otten and Amber Candella created math classroom “Instructional Nudges,” small tweaks to classroom practice that can make a significant impact on student engagement, learning, and sense making of mathematics.

The conversation reveals the origin of the Instructional Nudges project, some specific example nudges and how they work, and the coming soon Instructional Nudges aligned to the Mathematics Language Routines. Everyone will walk away with an idea or two to implement right away in the classroom!

Additional referenced content includes:

· Zandra’s personal webpage

· Practice-Driven PD webpage which houses all of the Instructional Nudges

· NCTM article – Rate and Review nudge

· Incremental PD guide

· Two-minute teacher guide videos

Did you enjoy this episode of Room to Grow? Please leave a review and share the episode with others. Share your feedback, comments, and suggestions for future episode topics by emailing roomtogrowmath@gmail.com . Be sure to connect with your hosts on X and Instagram: @JoanieFun and @cbmathguy.

This episode of Room to Grow, Curtis and Joanie discuss two publications they have engaged with regarding technology, adolescents, and learning. The Anxious Generation describes the impact of smart phones and other recent technologies on childhood development, providing an understanding of what is happening internally for students in our classrooms. The Disengaged Teen utilizes research data around modes of learning and how they play out in terms of classroom behaviors. Our hosts make connections between these texts and what these ideas mean for math educators and classroom practices.

Additional referenced content includes:

· Book: The Anxious Generation by Jonathan Haidt

· Podcast with Trevor Noah and Jonathan Haidt

· Book: The Disengaged Teen by Rebecca Winthrop and Jenny Anderson

Did you enjoy this episode of Room to Grow? Please leave a review and share the episode with others. Share your feedback, comments, and suggestions for future episode topics by emailing roomtogrowmath@gmail.com . Be sure to connect with your hosts on X and Instagram: @JoanieFun and @cbmathguy.

This episode of Room to Grow, Curtis and Joanie reflect back on 2025 and all that they learned during the year. A significant number of 2025 episodes of Room to Grow were focused on the Mathematics Teaching Practices from NCTM’s Principles to Actions, celebrating the 10th anniversary of its publication. Curtis and Joanie highlighted how these practices have survived the test of time, and continue to reflect good teaching in mathematics. Additionally, our hosts preview what new topics they are hoping to learn and explore podcast episodes about in 2026.

Additional referenced content includes:

· NTCM’s Principles to Actions and Taking Action books

· Pam Harris’ website and book

· Julianne Foxworthy Gonzalez, Ph.D. in Mathematics Education. Math guidelines for supporting multi-language learners (MLLs).

All of us at Room to Grow wish you a peaceful holiday season!

Did you enjoy this episode of Room to Grow? Please leave a review and share the episode with others. Share your feedback, comments, and suggestions for future episode topics by emailing roomtogrowmath@gmail.com . Be sure to connect with your hosts on X and Instagram: @JoanieFun and @cbmathguy.