What happens to application security when AI agents start writing most of the code?

Jack Cable knows both sides of this problem better than almost anyone. As a Senior Technical Advisor at CISA, he helped architect the Secure by Design initiative that challenged the entire software industry to stop shipping insecure products and expecting customers to clean up the mess. Now, as the founder of Corridor, he's building at the center of a question that didn't exist two years ago: how do you govern, secure, and trust code that no human wrote?

In this episode, Jack walks us through the journey from federal cybersecurity policy to startup founder, and why he believes we're at an inflection point that makes everything before it look manageable. We talk about why a decade of shift-left never actually fixed the vulnerability backlog, and why the rise of coding agents, Cursor, Claude Code, Codex, and the internal tools enterprises are quietly building, is about to make that backlog look quaint.

Jack makes the case for a new category he's helping define called Agentic Security Coding Management, and explains what separates it from the SAST tools and ASPM platforms security teams already have. We get into the uncomfortable duality of AI as both the source of the problem and the proposed solution, the frontier labs showing up in AppSec with unclear intentions, and the market confusion that's leaving CISOs struggling to tell real governance from repackaged scanning.

We spend the back half of the conversation on the hard questions. What does real governance of AI-generated code actually look like when thousands of developers are running agents in parallel? Is it policy enforcement at the agent level, provenance tracking, runtime attestation, or something nobody has built yet? And drawing on his time at CISA, Jack shares where he sees regulation heading: liability frameworks, mandatory disclosure, and what happens if we get the policy either too heavy or too absent at the exact wrong moment.

Whether you're a CISO trying to get ahead of this, a founder building in the space, or a developer watching your workflow transform in real time, this is the conversation that frames where AppSec goes from here.

When you fire up Claude Code, Cursor, or any AI coding agent, it launches with your full system permissions, your SSH keys, cloud credentials, browser passwords, every file on your machine. Most developers never think twice about it.

Luke Hinds did. And then he built something about it.

Luke is the creator of Sigstore, the cryptographic signing infrastructure now used by PyPI, Homebrew, GitHub, and Google as the industry standard for software supply chain security. In this episode, he joins Chris to talk about why he's watching the industry make the exact same mistake it made a decade ago, and what he built to try to stop it.

We cover the full picture: why application-layer guardrails and system prompts fundamentally fail as security boundaries for AI agents (and what kernel-level enforcement actually means), the .md file as an emerging control plane attack surface, the OpenClaw wake-up call and what the skills marketplace ecosystem gets structurally wrong about trust and provenance, the approval fatigue problem and Anthropic's 17% false negative rate on Claude Code's auto-mode classifier, extending SLSA and Sigstore attestation frameworks to AI-generated code, and why LLM-as-a-judge may not be the silver bullet many are hoping for.

Luke also makes a broader argument about where this is all heading — volumes of AI-generated code growing faster than human capacity to review it, junior engineers being priced out of the industry, and an aging cohort of engineers who can actually read and reason about code at depth. It's a candid, technically grounded conversation from someone who's been in open source security for 20+ years and has seen this movie before.

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Show Description

Joe Levy is the CEO of Sophos and a 30-year cybersecurity veteran who has held technical and executive roles across some of the industry's most recognizable brands. In this episode, we dig into a stat that should reframe how the entire industry thinks about its mission: out of roughly 359 million businesses worldwide, fewer than 32,000 have a CISO. That's less than one in 10,000 organizations with a security strategy leader — and it's a number Joe worked with Cybersecurity Ventures to quantify for the first time.

We explore what that structural gap means for how vendors build products, why the cybersecurity market is a 40-year-old market failure where spending goes up every year but outcomes don't improve, and how Sophos is betting that agentic AI can deliver CISO-level intuition to the hundreds of millions of organizations that could never conceive of hiring one. Joe breaks down where AI is genuinely delivering in security operations — and where the industry is overselling — drawing from Sophos's experience running the world's largest MDR service with 36,000 customers.

We also get into Sophos's Pacific Rim disclosure, a five-year engagement with a Chinese nation-state actor targeting their firewalls that Joe calls the highest form of threat intelligence sharing. He walks through the calculus of going public with that story, including the kernel-level monitoring they deployed on a handful of devices to stay one step ahead of the attacker. Plus, we discuss the SecureWorks acquisition, the CTO-to-CEO transition, competing with hyperscalers like Microsoft, and what the next chapter looks like for a billion-dollar PE-backed security company approaching maturity with Thoma Bravo.

Show Notes

• The cybersecurity poverty line quantified: out of 359 million businesses worldwide, fewer than 32,000 have a CISO — less than one in 10,000 — and this leadership gap compounds with the skills shortage and what Joe calls an "AI-enhanced market for lemons" where information asymmetry between buyers and vendors is getting worse
• The real problem isn't missing technology — most organizations already have endpoints and firewalls — it's misconfigurations, ignored alerts, undeployed agents, and no SOC to respond, which is why secure-by-default design and hybrid product-service models like MDR create more predictable outcomes than tools alone
• AI in the SOC is overhyped but not hype: Sophos runs 36,000 MDR customers and says the vast majority of Tier 1 (triage, false positive management) and Tier 2 (investigation, response) can now be performed by agents — but the industry lacks standard vocabulary for metrics like MTTR, letting vendors be "intentionally opaque" about what "response" actually means
• Joe introduces the concept of "humans as the accountability API" in an agentic world — AI can approximate analyst intuition, but someone still needs to be held accountable for remediation decisions, and a fully autonomous SOC may just be "a protection product with a very long data pipeline"
• The Pacific Rim story: Sophos spent five years engaged with a Chinese nation-state actor targeting their firewalls, deployed a kernel implant on fewer than a handful of attacker-controlled devices to observe exploit development in real time, and concealed targeted fixes among 150 other patches to avoid tipping off the adversary
• Sophos's CISO Advantage program aims to deliver the intuitions of a skilled security leader to the hundreds of millions of organizations that could never hire one — Joe calls it fixing a 40-year-old market failure and says they're shipping it this year