How can we overcome the transition from clinical practice to managerial roles?

In this episode, Dr Jonathan Darling, RCPCH Vice President for Education and Professional Development, speaks with Dr Erum Jamall, a consultant paediatrician and currently the Divisional Medical Director for Women's, Children and Core Services at Dartford and Gravesham NHS Trust. The two discuss leadership within NHS trusts and the crucial role of medical management.

A key theme was the importance of viewing medical management as an essential part of trust leadership, particularly by building networks and collaborating across stakeholders. Erum shared her experiences of leading during the COVID‑19 pandemic, highlighting how even the toughest environments can offer an opportunity for meaningful growth.

Erum pointed to the difficulty in balancing clinical and managerial roles, and cites self-belief, coaching and supportive networks as essential in navigating such challenges in senior leadership roles. Finally, she emphasised the importance of diverse and inclusive leadership, noting how varied perspectives strengthen teams and improve outcomes.

• Read Jonathan's reflections and download the transcript from episode 11 - on RCPCH website
• See related resources about 'Leading the way'- on RCPCH Learning

The views, thoughts and opinions expressed in this podcast relates only to the speaker and not necessarily to their employer, organisation, RCPCH or any other group or individual.

About Erum

Erum is a consultant paediatrician, with sub-specialty accreditation in paediatric emergency medicine. She is currently the Divisional Medical Director for Women's, Children and Core Services at Dartford and Gravesham NHS Trust. Her previous leadership roles include Divisional Clinical Director for Children and Young People Services and Associate Medical Director for Quality & Clinical Effectiveness at Whittington Health NHS Trust.

She is passionate about diverse representation and clinical expertise in leadership roles across Health Care Organisations and equitable access to healthcare for all. She firmly believes that we can shape better outcomes for Children and Young People through better leadership.

How can we be firm, fair, and tenacious in standing up for our teams and those we serve?

In this episode, Dr Jonathan Darling, RCPCH Vice President for Education and Professional Development, speaks with Dr Kay Tyerman, a paediatric nephrologist. Kay's approach to leadership is rooted in advocacy and collaboration, qualities that are essential in shaping effective health systems.

Kay and Jonathan talk about how hard knowledge has helped her build a valid argument to invest in child health, how she's been encouraged by a simple thank you, and how she's learned when to hand over a role to someone else. Because leadership is about being genuine and curious and building trust.

• Read Jonathan's reflections and download the transcript from episode 10 - on RCPCH website
• See related resources about 'Leading the way'- on RCPCH Learning

The views, thoughts and opinions expressed in this podcast relates only to the speaker and not necessarily to their employer, organisation, RCPCH or any other group or individual.

About Kay

Kay is a paediatric nephrologist in Leeds, current Head of School for Yorkshire and Humber and Officer for Workforce Planning.

Over her consultant career, she has undertaken a variety of portfolio posts and voluntary roles. Her proudest achievement is her family and feeling as enthusiastic about paediatrics now as when she undertook her first post at the Norfolk & Norwich.

We are working in a period of sustained challenge. Many colleagues across the health system are stretched, fatigued and, in some cases, bordering on burnout.

In this episode, Will Clement, a leadership consultant, executive coach and facilitator who has worked across the NHS and with RCPCH, tell us how compassionate leadership offers more than kindness; it delivers measurable improvements in wellbeing, team cohesion and outcomes.

• Read Jonathan's reflections and download the transcript from episode 9 - on RCPCH website
• See related resources about 'Leading the way'- on RCPCH Learning

The views, thoughts and opinions expressed in this podcast relates only to the speaker and not necessarily to their employer, organisation, RCPCH or any other group or individual.

About Will Clement

Will Clement is an experienced leadership consultant, executive coach, and facilitator, with a background spanning public, private, and not-for-profit sectors. He is the founder and Managing Director of Clement Leadership Development, a values-led consultancy specialising in leadership development, executive coaching, and organisational culture.

With over 20 years of experience, including several senior leadership roles with Royal Mail, The AA, NHS and other large complex organisations, Will brings a grounded, practical approach informed by contemporary leadership thinking, coaching psychology, and systems leadership. His style is purposeful, challenging, and human, helping leaders lead with clarity, courage, and care in high pressure environments.

Clement Leadership Development has delivered impactful programmes for national bodies, including NHS Trusts, Royal Colleges, universities, police leadership teams, and local authorities. Will also leads the design and delivery of bespoke leadership frameworks, awaydays, and cultural diagnostics.

A qualified Level 7 executive coach and MBA graduate, Will is passionate about helping drive purpose and professionalism in leaders.

All child health professionals, no matter their role, must have knowledge and skills in safeguarding. As a designated doctor in child protection, Vicki has particular leadership experience in this area and has recently led the redevelopment of intercollegiate competencies for safeguarding and children in care.

Vicki speaks with host Dr Jonathan Darling about her career, which often took an unconventional path; she worked as a teaching fellow, got involved with the RCPCH trainees' committee and became head of service of a growing community paediatrics team.

Leadership often starts with saying "yes" to opportunities that challenge us. But, as Vicki and Jonathan discuss, we can also ask for help, building collaboration. Prioritising self-care is also important, and Vicki has a simple strategy: three minutes of music to reset (in her case, some 1980s soft rock!).

• Read Jonathan's reflections and download the transcript from episode 8 - on RCPCH website
• See related resources about 'Leading the way'- on RCPCH Learning

The views, thoughts and opinions expressed in this podcast relates only to the speaker and not necessarily to their employer, organisation, RCPCH or any other group or individual.

About Vicki

I am a Consultant Paediatrician in Mansfield and the Designated Doctor for Looked After Children in Nottinghamshire. I work in the community paediatric service and with children in care. I've held leadership, management and supervision roles within the Trust.

I was appointed to the RCPCH Child Protection Standing Committee in February 2019 working with the College to support paediatricians, progress training and improve health outcomes for children in care, with an interest in education and migrant health. I was appointed as the Assistant Officer for Child Protection (Education) in April 2022, developing and delivering courses and working as the clinical editor for the eLfH level three safeguarding children and young people eLearning. I was project lead for the recent update of the intercollegiate safeguarding children and children in care competencies. A multi-partner undertaking which took two years to complete. I was also co-lead for the development and publication of initial health assessment (IHAs) standards for children in care. I regularly teach on national courses and author journal articles.

Failure, Steve tells us, is a good teacher, and when you get involved in leadership, expect to make mistakes (and learn from them).

In this episode of our monthly series of leadership conversations, Dr Jonathan Darling, RCPCH VP for Education and Professional Development, speaks with Steve about how his academic and leadership roles evolved, starting with a thin CV and stepping up as opportunities arose. He became involved in child health research, first in small groups, and then collaborating with colleagues across the UK and globe. His route to RCPCH President began with other College roles, including Scottish Officer and Registrar.

Steve and Jonathan talk about his leadership values: realistic communication, a flat hierarchy and a culture of respect.

• Read Jonathan's reflections and download the transcript from episode 7 on RCPCH website
• See related resources about 'Leading the Way'- on RCPCH Learning

This month, it's our usual podcast host Jonathan in the spotlight! He's interviewed by Arnab Seal, who featured in our previous episode.

How to pinpoint the start of Jonathan's leadership journey? Perhaps when he was a senior registrar and helped set up a junior doctors' committee to come up with realistic proposals to resolve some of the things that weren't working as well as they could - like rotas. "That was leadership, but I didn't really realise it at the time," he says, "I was just doing what I felt needed to be done to make a difference."

It's a reminder that leadership often starts with small but meaningful actions.

Jonathan went on to become a consultant and senior lecturer in Leeds, and engaged in medical education and safeguarding. Now Vice President for Education and Professional Development at the College, where he enjoys learning from others' expertise and perspectives, he's been at the helm of the RCPCH Thrive Paediatrics programme, which supports paediatricians to promote wellbeing in their work. As Arnab says in his reflections on the episode, "the best leaders are those who lift others up and help them thrive".

• Read Arnab's reflections and download the transcript from episode 5 - on RCPCH website
• See related resources about 'Leading the way'- on RCPCH Learning

Arnab's story is ambitious and inspiring: he helped establish a new hospital and introduced a pioneering approach to healthcare in India. That's not something many of us can say we've done. What dreams do we hold, and how can we create space to pursue them?

In the fifth episode of 'Leading the way', our monthly series of leadership conversations, Dr Jonathan Darling, RCPCH Vice President for Education and Training, speaks with Dr Arnab Seal, a retired paediatrician in Leeds who worked in both general and community paediatrics (as he loved doing both). His special area of interest is neurodevelopmental paediatrics and he became the lead paediatrician for the service in Leeds.

Arnab shares his insights with us on pursuing dreams, developing leadership qualities and "leaning in" to adversity.

• Read Jonathan's reflections and download the transcript from episode 5 - on RCPCH website
• See related resources about 'Leading the way'- on RCPCH Learning