In Part 2 of this profound episode of Provoking Peace, we continue our conversation with Palestinian peacemaker Aziz Abu Sarah and Israeli peacemaker Maoz Inon. They dive into the difficult, emotional process of writing their upcoming book, an eight-day shared journey that explores the physical geography of the region alongside the emotional geography of their own grief, healing, and partnership.

Aziz and Maoz discuss the messy, imperfect reality of being a peacemaker. They reject the idea that one must be a perfect, saint-like figure to do this work, arguing instead that peacemaking is an active, daily choice to build a world rooted in justice, equality, and dignity. They navigate the complexities of dialogue across the divide, emphasizing that true peacebuilding requires listening without silencing each other's narratives, even when discussing highly charged terms.

The conversation highlights the immense power of public symbolism and dreaming. They share the breathtaking story of their embrace in front of Pope Francis and 13,000 peacebuilders in Verona, Italy, illustrating how a single moment of unity can transform skepticism into hope. Ultimately, Aziz and Maoz offer a powerful reminder: we cannot fix broken realities with logic and arguments alone; we must also rely on poetry, art, and the courage to dream of a shared future.

Key Takeaways:

• Dialogue requires the mutual respect of allowing each person to speak from their own narrative without silencing the other.
• Writing their collaborative book was a deeply emotional process that required transforming unimaginable personal loss into a roadmap for reconciliation.
• Peacemakers are not flawless saints; they are imperfect people who actively choose to do the hard work of creating a better world.
• Public symbols of unity, like an Israeli and a Palestinian embracing before Pope Francis, have the power to shift global skepticism into faith and hope.
• A roadmap to peace begins with the courage to dream, followed by the commitment to amplify that dream loudly and publicly.
• When logic and political arguments fail, art and poetry hold the profound ability to address broken realities and bridge divides.
• Ignoring injustice and conflict is not a viable option; peacebuilding is a necessary, urgent choice for the survival and safety of all humanity.

About the Guests

Aziz Abu Sarah is a Palestinian peacemaker, author, and tourism entrepreneur.

Following the tragic loss of his brother Taysir to the conflict, Aziz dedicated his life to reconciliation and building bridges across divides. He is the co-author of The Future Is Peace and travels the world to amplify the dream of a shared future, demonstrating that peace is not only possible but essential.

Maoz Inon is an Israeli peacemaker, author, and tourism entrepreneur.

After the heartbreaking loss of his parents to the ongoing conflict, Maoz chose the path of peace and partnership over revenge. Alongside his "brother" Aziz, he advocates globally for justice, equality, and a peaceful resolution, proving that shared grief can be transformed into a powerful catalyst for collective healing.

Notable Quotes:

“I think what makes peacemakers unique is that we are not perfect people. We are very much an imperfect people who trying to create a better world.”

“The only way I will be able to justify their death, if there will be a sacrifice for peace and not for war. Only peace will justify their death.”

Resources Mentioned:

• The People's Peace Summit
• The Future Is Peace

In this episode of Provoking Peace, hosts from the Sisterhood of Salaam Shalom sit down with Aziz Abu Sarah and Maoz Inon, co-CEOs of InterAct International. As a Palestinian and an Israeli working together, they discuss their shared journey as peacemakers and their upcoming book, The Future is Peace: A Shared Journey Across the Holy Land, set for release on April 14th.

Key Provisions

• The Power of Vulnerability: Both authors emphasize that true healing and reconciliation require being vulnerable and working through personal pain and trauma.
• Brotherhood and Partnership: Their relationship is built on a "brotherhood" that rejects the narrative of being "supposed enemies" in favor of equality and shared action.
• Breaking Ignorance: The book is described as a "hammer" intended to break down walls of ignorance that lead to fear and hatred.
• Shared Humanity: Rather than debating historical facts to "win," they focus on a dialogue that recognizes 50% of the region's population is Israeli and 50% is Palestinian, requiring a joint path forward.

Scope of Work & Compensation

• Peacemaking as a Lifestyle: For Aziz and Maoz, peacemaking is a 24/7 commitment that informs everything they do, including tours, writing op-eds, and leadership.
• Personal Cost of Conflict:
  • Maoz Inon: Lost both of his parents and several childhood friends to the conflict.
  • Aziz Abu Sarah: Lost his brother and has family members separated by exile and different administrative rules in Jerusalem and the West Bank.
• Defining the Nakba: Aziz explains the Nakba (1948) as a "catastrophe" that continues to affect Palestinians today through trauma, displacement, and disconnection from family.

Communication & Compliance

• Intentional Terminology: The duo decided to use equalizing language (e.g., if one says their parents were "killed," the other says their brother was "killed") to ensure their relationship began on level ground.
• Authentic Voice: In writing the book, they allowed interviewees the freedom to use their own terms without censorship to remain faithful to their lived experiences.
• Shared Values over Perfect Agreement: They argue that while people may never agree 100% on the past or specific terms, they must agree on the values and actions needed to fix the future.

Resources

• Book: The Future is Peace: A Shared Journey Across the Holy Land by Aziz Abu Sarah and Maoz Inon (Available April 14th).
• Organization: InterAct International, a non-profit dedicated to Middle East peace.
• Podcast: Provoking Peace by the Sisterhood of Salaam Shalom.

In the second half of the Sisterhood of Salaam Shalom’s annual conference keynote, Dr. Dalia Fahmy and Peter Beinart tackle the complex and heavily weighted language used to describe the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. They explore how trigger words like "terrorism," "Zionism," and "from the river to the sea" are often misunderstood or unevenly applied, emphasizing the need to ask deeper questions rather than shutting down dialogue.

The conversation highlights the media's failure to center Palestinian voices and the necessity of embracing discomfort as a vital tool for learning and democratic renewal. Answering audience questions, Peter and Dalia confront historical blind spots, such as the lack of memorials for the Native American genocide, and then discuss why true safety for Jewish people cannot be built on a system of supremacy. Ultimately, both speakers share where they find hope in dark times: the courage of young people, the rise of new morally grounded institutions, and a generation that views the entire world as their collective "pond."

Key Takeaways

• Language must place all people on an equal footing; terms like "terrorism" should be applied consistently to both non-state actors and state violence.
• Instead of reacting defensively to polarizing words, the most productive path forward is to ask people to define what those terms mean to them personally.
• "Gotcha media" and debate-style discourse prevent active listening. True education and understanding require stepping into spaces of discomfort.
• Safety and supremacy are not synonymous. True security is found when neighboring populations have equal rights and a voice in their governance.
• Philosopher Peter Singer’s "drowning child" thought experiment serves as a powerful reminder that our moral obligation extends globally.
• Hope for the future lies in cross-cultural solidarity, student activism, and the building of new community institutions free from the moral compromises of the status quo.

About the Guests

Peter Beinart is a leading journalist, political commentator, and professor of journalism and political science at the Newmark School of Journalism at CUNY. He is the author of several books, including his latest, Being Jewish After the Destruction of Gaza. A frequent contributor to the New York Times, the Atlantic, and the New Republic, Beinart is known for his thought-provoking analysis on American politics, foreign policy, and the intersection of Jewish identity and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Dr. Dalia Fahmy is an Associate Professor of Political Science at Long Island University, where she teaches US foreign policy, international relations, and politics of the Middle East. She is a Senior Fellow at the Center for Global Policy and has served as a visiting scholar at the Center for the Study of Genocide and Human Rights at Rutgers University. Dr. Fahmy is a prominent voice on political Islam and democracy, frequently appearing on major news networks to provide expert analysis on global conflicts.

Notable Quotes

“Every time you're uncomfortable is because it's an opportunity to learn... If we don't want discomfort, we've actually decapitated the ability to learn.” — Dr. Dalia Fahmy

“Being uncomfortable is not the same as being unsafe... Have those conversations side by side, recognizing that all students have the right to be safe on campus and all students should be expected to be challenged intellectually.” — Peter Beinart

Resources Mentioned

• Sisterhood of Salaam Shalom
  https://sosspeace.org/
• Famine, Affluence, and Morality - Peter Singer
  (Essay PDF)https://rintintin.colorado.edu/~vancecd/phil308/Singer2.pdf

In this special keynote presentation from the Sisterhood of Salaam Shalom’s annual conference at Rutgers University, co-host Tahija Vikalo sits down with journalist and commentator Peter Beinart and esteemed scholar Dr. Dalia Fahmy for a profound, wide-ranging conversation.

The episode begins with Peter and Dalia opening up about the personal journeys and pivotal life events that shaped their worldviews. Dr. Fahmy emphasizes the critical need for a feminist perspective in political science that accounts for the interpersonal and familial toll of war, while Peter shares his evolution from viewing Israel as an unquestioned safe haven to the destabilizing, yet liberating, experience of seeing the reality of the occupation through Palestinian eyes.

Key Takeaways

• A feminist perspective on conflict resolution would changes how war atrocities are counted, focusing on the destruction of family units, the lived experience of women, and the interpersonal toll.
• Unlearning internalized biases is a long but liberating process, requiring us to actively listen to the lived experiences of marginalized groups.
• The language used around conflict and ceasefires often masks ongoing structural violence; a temporary pause does not equal a long-term peace plan.
• Data from the Arab Barometer project indicates that prior to October 7th, a vast majority of Palestinians in Gaza (76%) wanted Hamas out of power and desired democratic representation.
• Meaningful political discourse requires addressing the actions and ideology of Hamas, while also recognizing Israel's historical role in weakening secular, nationalist Palestinian leadership.
• The struggle against anti-Muslim bigotry and anti-Jewish bigotry must be intertwined; both are rooted in a dangerous push for homogeneity, hierarchy, and ethno-nationalism.
• The Granada Declaration, drafted by 26 scholars, offers a 10-principle framework for combating Antisemitism and Islamophobia together.
• True interfaith solidarity means showing up for one another to celebrate and exist together, rather than only coming together in the aftermath of violence or massacres.

About the Guests

Peter Beinart

Peter Beinart is a leading journalist, political commentator, and professor of journalism and political science at the Newmark School of Journalism at CUNY. He is the author of several books, including his latest, Being Jewish After the Destruction of Gaza. A frequent contributor to the New York Times, the Atlantic, and the New Republic, Beinart is known for his thought-provoking analysis on American politics, foreign policy, and the intersection of Jewish identity and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Dr. Dalia Fahmy

Dr. Dalia Fahmy is an Associate Professor of Political Science at Long Island University, where she teaches US foreign policy, international relations, and politics of the Middle East. She is a Senior Fellow at the Center for Global Policy and has served as a visiting scholar at the Center for the Study of Genocide and Human Rights at Rutgers University. Dr. Fahmy is a prominent voice on political Islam and democracy, frequently appearing on major news networks to provide expert analysis on global conflicts.

Notable Quotes

“I never entered the room as the Muslim professor... but what women bring to these spaces and how we study them is that we challenge the data and count differently. We challenge the narrative and look at the interpersonal and take it seriously.” — Dr. Dalia Fahmy

Organizations / Initiatives

• Sisterhood of Salaam Shalom
  https://sosspeace.org/
• Arab Barometer Project
  https://www.arabbarometer.org/

In this episode of Provoking Peace, we are joined by Dr. Celene Ibrahim, scholar of Islamic intellectual history and gender studies, and Vanessa Avery, interfaith leader and Executive Director of Sharing Sacred Spaces, for a rich and wide-ranging conversation on interfaith dialogue, deep listening, sacred space, and rebuilding community in polarized times.

Celene and Vanessa share their personal journeys into interreligious work. Shaped by multifaith upbringings, academic study, and lived experience navigating religious identity across Christian, Jewish, Muslim, and other traditions. Both reflect on how interfaith engagement is not just an intellectual pursuit, but a deeply embodied, relational practice rooted in listening, vulnerability, and dignity.

The conversation explores practical tools for interfaith dialogue, including structured story-sharing, deep listening exercises, and awareness of the emotional and bodily responses that arise in difficult conversations.

Key Takeaways

• Interfaith dialogue is most effective when grounded in deep listening, empathy, and structured storytelling.
• Sacred spaces and architecture provide powerful entry points for understanding religious meaning and shared humanity.
• Media representations play a significant role in shaping stereotypes about religious communities—and can be challenged through awareness and advocacy.
• “Brave spaces” require trust, dignity, and shared norms for navigating productive disagreement.
• Young people are often eager to engage across difference but may feel skeptical about systemic change without lived examples of hope.
• Religious and secular worldviews alike are shaped by moral frameworks, values, and assumptions that benefit from honest dialogue.
• Faith-based communities play a crucial role in rebuilding social fabric through care, service, and belonging.
• Interfaith work is as much about self-reflection as it is about understanding others.

About the Guests

Dr. Celene Ibrahim
Dr. Celene Ibrahim is a multidisciplinary scholar specializing in Islamic intellectual history, gender studies, comparative religion, and ethics. She is the author of Women and Gender in the Qur’an and a trusted media voice on Islam and interreligious relations, with appearances on NPR, PBS, and Netflix. She is a faculty member at Groton School, where she teaches Religious Studies and Philosophy and serves as Muslim Chaplain.

Vanessa Avery
Vanessa Avery is a longtime interfaith leader, religious studies scholar, and advocate for religious diversity and inclusion. She is the Executive Director of Sharing Sacred Spaces, an organization dedicated to building interfaith community through visits to sacred spaces, dialogue training, and relationship-building. Vanessa lectures on interfaith engagement and has authored numerous articles on world religions, nonviolence, and peacebuilding.

Notable Quotes

“Listening deeply is a spiritual practice. When we recreate someone’s story, we recreate their world.”

Resources Mentioned

Books

• Women and Gender in the Qur’an — Dr. Celene Ibrahim
  https://www.routledge.com/Women-and-Gender-in-the-Quran/Ibrahim/p/book/9780367507768

Organizations / Initiatives

• Sharing Sacred Spaces
  https://www.sharingsacredspaces.org
• Groton School – Religious Studies & Philosophy
  https://www.groton.org/academics/religious-studies-philosophy
• Spiritual Playdate
  https://www.spi

In this inspiring episode of Provoking Peace, we sit down with Nina Fernando, Executive Director of the Shoulder to Shoulder Campaign, to explore the real work of peacebuilding at the intersections of religion, identity, and justice. Nina shares how her Sri Lankan Catholic upbringing shaped her understanding of faith, how she finds beauty and complexity in all religious traditions, and why she believes human dignity must be at the center of confronting rising anti-Muslim, anti-Jewish, anti-Arab, and anti-Palestinian bigotry.

Nina offers a powerful look into what it means to build trust across communities, hold difficult conversations with compassion, and expand coalitions beyond “the choir.” She also opens up about her creative life as a musician.

Key Takeaways:

• Human dignity is non-negotiable, and must ground all responses to intersecting bigotries.
• Peace work requires meeting people where they are, even when disagreements run deep.
• Trust is built long before moments of crisis, through consistency, presence, and authentic relationship-building.
• Coalitions grow through voice-to-voice and face-to-face connection, not through email or social media alone.
• Women are central faith leaders, even in traditions where clergy roles are male-dominated.
• Art and music can agitate, heal, inspire, and create new paths forward, especially when institutions fall short.

About Shoulder to Shoulder

The Shoulder to Shoulder Campaign works to counter anti-Muslim discrimination and build a more pluralistic America. Their work centers on equipping, connecting, and mobilizing communities through trainings, faith-rooted partnerships, national networks, and resources like their new primer on anti-Muslim, anti-Jewish, anti-Arab, and anti-Palestinian bigotry.

About Nina Fernando:

Nina is a Sri Lankan Catholic, community organizer, musician, and interfaith leader. Her work spans labor rights, faith-rooted justice initiatives, and national coalition building. With a deep belief in human dignity, relationship-building, and creative engagement, she leads Shoulder to Shoulder with compassion and clarity. She is also a singer-songwriter whose music reflects love, longing, and commitment to a better world.

Notable Quotes:

• “Human dignity… it’s not conditional. There’s no ifs and whens.” — Nina Fernando
• “We can work shoulder to shoulder, dream shoulder to shoulder… even disagree shoulder to shoulder.” — Nina Fernando

Resources Mentioned:

Organizations:

• Shoulder to Shoulder Campaign
• Unity Productions Foundation (producers of The Sultan and the Saint)
• Parents Circle – Families Forum (referenced as part of broader peace-related conversations)
• Interfaith Alliance
• Evangelical Lutheran Church of America
• U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops
• Union for Reform Judaism

Initiatives + Tools:

• I Still Love You on Youtube
• Faith Over Fear: a national training program for clergy and lay leaders to counter anti-Muslim discrimination
• Annual Interfaith Ramadan Iftar Map<

In this episode of Provoking Peace, we sit down with Dr. Daisy Khan—founder of WISE (Women’s Islamic Initiative in Spirituality and Equality), global interfaith leader, and author of 30 Rights of Muslim Women—for a wide-ranging and deeply honest conversation about media narratives, faith, gender justice, and the urgent work of peacebuilding in divided times.

Daisy reflects on how 40 years of negative media imagery—from televised violence under the Taliban to the absence of Muslim voices during coverage of ISIS—have profoundly shaped public perception of Muslims, particularly Muslim women. She explains how Orientalism and politically expedient framing have positioned Muslims as a permanent national security threat, enabling war, dehumanization, and the erosion of press independence.

The conversation explores how Muslim women are persistently portrayed as oppressed despite historical and contemporary evidence to the contrary. Daisy points to Islamic scripture granting women rights to education, inheritance, property, and leadership as early as the 7th century—and highlights the civic, professional, and political leadership of Muslim women today in the United States.

Daisy also discusses why she wrote 30 Rights of Muslim Women: as a faith-based resource for Muslim women reclaiming their rights, and as a myth-busting reference for broader audiences. Drawing on shared narratives across Islam, Judaism, and Christianity, she emphasizes that women have always been central spiritual actors—co-stewards of prophetic missions rather than sidelined figures.

Throughout the episode, Daisy returns to the idea that peace is not passive. It is sacred, difficult, and urgent work. From Islamophobia trainings in corporate spaces to interfaith dialogue rooted in active listening, she calls for honest conversations that humanize rather than divide. Peace, she argues, begins when we refuse fear-based narratives and commit to understanding one another without demanding agreement.

Key Takeaways:

• Media framing has played a central role in shaping anti-Muslim bigotry, particularly through decades of unbalanced and dehumanizing imagery.
• Muslim women’s rights are deeply rooted in Islamic scripture, including rights to education, inheritance, property, and leadership.
• Political agendas often drive media narratives, enabling war, fear, and the demonization of entire communities.
• Women have always played central spiritual and leadership roles in Islam, Judaism, and Christianity—history has simply been selectively told.
• 30 Rights of Muslim Women serves both as a faith-based reference for Muslim women and an educational tool for non-Muslims.
• Religion is frequently weaponized for political ends, affecting women’s rights across cultures and faiths.
• Peacebuilding requires honest dialogue, active listening, and the courage to engage across differences.
• Peace is sacred work rooted in urgency, service, and responsibility to one’s community and humanity.

About the Guest

Dr. Daisy Khan is a globally recognized interfaith leader, activist, and founder of WISE (Women’s Islamic Initiative in Spirituality and Equality). Her work focuses on women’s rights within Islam, countering extremism, and building bridges across faiths. She is the author of 30 Rights of Muslim Women, a comprehensive reference on women’s rights grounded in Islamic theology and history.

Notable Quotes:

“Forty years of negative imaging has consequences. When you only show one story, people believe that’s the truth.”

Organizations / Initiatives Referenced

• WISE (Women’s Islamic Initiative in Spirituality and Equality)
• Interfaith dialogue and Islamophobia ed

*RECORDED IN DECEMBER 2024*

In this episode of Provoking Peace, we sit down with two remarkable women doing interfaith justice work in one of the most painful political moments of our time: Rabbi Nancy Kreimer, founder of the Department of Multi-Faith Studies & Initiatives at the Reconstructionist Rabbinical College, and Samah El-Haj Ibrahim, a Palestinian refugee, scholar, and professor of political theory.

Samah shares the lived reality of being born a stateless Palestinian refugee in Lebanon, with no political or civil rights — unable to vote, own property, or even travel freely. She describes how Palestinian culture survives through family, food, language, art, and the yearning for a homeland that “lives in us, rather than us living in it.”

Rabbi Nancy reflects on growing up in post-Holocaust America, how her understanding of Jewish identity shifted over decades, and why she now speaks out against white Christian nationalism and the conflation of anti-Zionism with anti-Jewish bigotry.

Together, they share how they met, how they grieve all children lost — Israeli and Palestinian — and why building an interfaith group during a genocide is both painful and necessary. Their collaboration models what it looks like to refuse enemy narratives and instead choose shared mourning, shared humanity, and shared action.

Key Takeaways:

• Cultural identity survives in diaspora through language, food, art, family stories, and intentional teaching across generations.
• Being a Palestinian refugee means inheriting statelessness — no citizenship, no political or civil rights, and constant barriers to work, travel, and belonging.
• Identity evolves over time. Rabbi Nancy’s understanding of Jewish identity shifted as she witnessed the rise of white Christian nationalism and the politicization of “anti-Semitism.”
• White Christian nationalism poses a profound threat to both Jewish and Muslim communities in the U.S.
• Interfaith solidarity during genocide is painful but healing. Creating spaces to mourn all lives lost — without false equivalences — is radical and restorative.
• Interfaith work matters. Both women have seen moments of hope through community building, shared vigils, and witnessing each other’s grief and humanity.

About the Guests

Rabbi Nancy Kreimer

Rabbi Nancy Kreimer is a pioneer in interfaith dialogue and multi-faith education. She founded the Department of Multi-Faith Studies and Initiatives at the Reconstructionist Rabbinical College in Philadelphia, where she served for nearly 30 years.

She is co-author of:
Strangers, Neighbors, Friends: Muslim, Christian, Jewish Reflections on Compassion and Peace. Her work centers on justice, shared humanity, and challenging nationalist or supremacist interpretations within faith traditions.

Samah El-Haj Ibrahim

Samah is an adjunct professor at Moore College of Art & Design specializing in political theory, citizenship, statelessness, and the Middle East. Born a Palestinian refugee in Lebanon, she brings personal and academic insight into questions of identity, displacement, and belonging. She is currently writing a book on citizenship in unrecognized states.

Notable Quotes:

• “Palestine has always lived in us, rather than us living in Palestine.” — Samah
• “White Christian nationalism is a much greater threat to Jews than anti-Zionism.” — Rabbi Nancy

Resources Mentioned:

Books

• Strangers, Neighbors, Friends: Muslim, Christian, Jewish Reflections on Compassion and Peace — Rabbi Nancy Kreimer & co-authors

Organizations / Groups Referenced

• Departme