In this episode, Michael and Pete explore what leadership really requires in an era defined by fatigue, disruption, and constant change. They examine how pressures at home, the aftershocks of COVID, and the acceleration of AI are compounding exhaustion for leaders at every level. Pete describes today’s environment as a relentless “hailstorm” of forces outside any leader’s control, while Michael emphasizes that clarity around mission, vision, and values is no longer optional. It is the stabilizing force leaders must return to when everything else feels uncertain.

Michael outlines why leadership clarity directly impacts workplace culture, engagement, and performance. Organizations that successfully navigated the pandemic and economic volatility have a unique opportunity to reduce fear and restore confidence across their teams. Using a familiar San Diego fog analogy, Michael explains how experienced leaders move forward not by guessing, but by relying on judgment, shared wisdom, and deliberate next steps, even when visibility is limited.

Pete shares the thinking behind his book on leading in foggy conditions, shaped by more than 30 years in the technology sector. His work challenges outdated leadership models and speaks directly to younger leaders navigating ambiguity for the first time, as well as seasoned leaders who may be overly attached to certainty. At its core, the book advocates for a more humane, respectful, and grounded approach to leadership that acknowledges uncertainty rather than denying it.

Michael reflects on a formative experience at Daimler-Benz, where introducing structured debriefs and outside perspectives increased client capacity by 20 percent without adding staff. The lesson was clear: too much expertise can create rigidity. Pete builds on this with his concept of the “elusive peak,” where leaders risk becoming trapped by what they already know. Together, they unpack how psychological safety and openness allow teams to challenge assumptions, surface better ideas, and improve outcomes.

The conversation closes with a candid discussion on humility and vulnerability. Pete reinforces that leadership is a team sport, especially in uncertain conditions. Through his work with Agile Leadership Journey, he helps leaders tap into the collective intelligence already inside their organizations. The takeaway is simple but demanding: effective leadership today requires courage, curiosity, and the willingness to lead with others, not above them.

Book: https://www.agileleadershipjourney.com/into-the-fog-book