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In this episode, Mandy Griffin and Katy Swalwell continue their discussion on Elizabeth Gillespie McRae's book, 'Mothers of Massive Resistance.' They delve into the stories of three Southern white women—Florence Sillers Ogden, Mary Dawson Cain, and Cornelia Dabney Tucker—who significantly influenced political activism and white supremacy in the early to mid-20th century. Ogden leveraged local politics and New Deal policies to benefit white elites while maintaining segregation. Cain focused on anti-prohibition and business-friendly policies, also breaking with the Democratic Party due to its evolving racial policies. Tucker campaigned against FDR's court-packing plan and later promoted the Republican Party among Southern whites, emphasizing business interests and states' rights under a white supremacist agenda. The episode underscores the complex roles these women played in shaping the South's political landscape and how their actions still resonate today.

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In this episode, the hosts delve into a heated discussion about the deeply entrenched white supremacist narratives in the American education system, sparked by the second chapter of McRae's book, Mother's of Massive Resistance. They recount the persistent work of historical figures like Mildred Lewis Rutherford in influencing school curriculums to perpetuate biased histories. The conversation touches on the frustrations and professional insights of both hosts as they connect these historical trends to current events and policies, highlighting the enduring impact on today's education. They also explore contemporary conservative strategies, such as religious curriculum in Texas, and discuss the potential for progressive inroads. The episode concludes with a call to action for listeners to support organizations and efforts that promote inclusive and accurate educational narratives.

00:00 Introduction and Initial Reactions

00:28 The Emotional Impact of the Book

02:42 Professional Backgrounds and Personal Stakes

06:55 Historical Figures and Their Influence

12:00 Dominant Narratives vs. Counter Narratives

16:09 Modern Implications and Personal Anecdotes

20:24 Rutherford's Legacy and Modern Education

33:14 Local Control and Federal Oversight

35:15 States' Rights and Progressive Uses

35:45 Protecting Children: A Cover for White Supremacy

39:28 The Role of Education in Shaping Narratives

41:30 Textbook Bias and Historical Erasure

44:02 The Impact of Racism in Education

52:26 Efforts to Counteract Historical Erasure

54:53 Controversial Curriculum Changes in Texas

01:08:36 Strategies for Challenging the Status Quo

01:12:23 Call to Action and Conclusion

Links:

https://www.chalkbeat.org/2025/07/17/texas-bible-bluebonnet-lessons-may-spur-parent-opt-outs-after-mahmoud/

https://www.socialstudies.org/sites/default/files/view-article-2020-12/se8406335.pdf

https://www.zinnedproject.org

https://rethinkingschools.org

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