In this episode, Michael shares a deeply personal experience from his somatic therapy studies: feeling calm and articulate in small classes, yet anxious, self-critical, and dysregulated in larger group settings. Together with Nikolas, he explores this contrast through the lens of Polyvagal Theory, unpacking how the nervous system perceives safety, threat, and social connection.

The conversation moves beyond theory into lived experience—touching on fight-or-flight responses, faulty neuroception, self-regulation strategies, and why intellectual understanding alone often isn’t enough to calm the body. They discuss practical approaches such as breathing, leaving and re-entering situations, nervous system “priming,” vulnerability, co-regulation, and the limits of exposure-based methods.

A thoughtful, honest exploration of social anxiety, embodiment, and what it really takes to retrain the nervous system—especially when you already “know better,” but your body hasn’t caught up yet.

Timestamps

00:41 – Introduction and framing the episode

01:35 – Overview of Polyvagal Theory: ventral vagal, sympathetic, dorsal vagal

03:35 – Michael’s experience: small classes vs. large classes

05:35 – Nervous system threat perception and fight-or-flight in social settings

07:18 – Safety, self-monitoring, and why “just focusing outward” doesn’t work

09:54 – Breathing and self-regulation: what helps and what doesn’t

12:34 – Why self-soothing techniques can fail in high activation

14:53 – Leaving situations to reset the nervous system

16:50 – Priming before stressful situations (movement, yoga, routines)

19:39 – Hidden triggers: commuting stress and activating content before class

21:45 – Reducing shame through understanding nervous system patterns

23:35 – Designing an ideal program for social anxiety

25:22 – Exposure vs. skill deficits: where the real issue lies

27:04 – Does exposure actually teach safety to the nervous system?

28:38 – Relief after leaving situations and what the body learns

30:08 – Holding it together vs. genuine regulation

31:36 – Vulnerability as a way out of incongruence

34:22 – Acceptance vs. forceful self-regulation

35:55 – Co-regulation, empathy, and being seen in anxiety

37:02 – Behavioral therapy: when it helps and when it doesn’t

38:54 – Closing reflections and wrapping up