What if the advice to avoid talking about politics is actually making everything worse? In our first-ever guest interview, we sit down with Monica Guzman - author of "I Never Thought of It That Way," and advisor at Braver Angels to talk about how to have fearlessly curious conversations in dangerously divided times.

Monica doesn't sugarcoat it: America is fraying. Social media has made it easy to be incurious while feeling righteous, and "conflict entrepreneurs" are profiting off our division. But she believes the only way forward is to keep talking to each other, especially across disagreement.

Her advice for navigating political conversations - especially during the holidays: • Know what you're after: connection or persuasion?

• Step away from social media and have tough conversations face-to-face

• Ask "how" instead of "why" - invite people to share their story, not defend their position

• Remember that curiosity and grace are contagious

Monica shares a powerful story about bringing liberal Seattleites to meet conservative Oregon farmers. What they discovered: we're all terrible at estimating what the "other side" really thinks. Studies show both liberals and conservatives wildly overestimate support for extreme positions like political violence. The best intervention? Talking to real people, not caricatures.

Some argue America should split into "Divided States." Monica pushes back hard: that's a lie pushed by extremes for political gain. The truth? The more time we spend only with people who agree with us, the dumber we get. We need each other to make wise decisions for a healthy society.

Is there hope? Absolutely. The revolution isn't happening in halls of power - it's happening in living rooms, coffee shops, and podcasts. People choosing dialogue over dismissal are the real counterculture.

Monica leaves us with "sonder" - the realization that every person has a life as vivid and complex as your own. When we remember that, everything changes.

Read Monica's book "I Never Thought of It That Way" and join the movement toward fearless curiosity.

CHAPTER MARKERS:

00:00 - Introduction: Why We Talk Across Political Divides

00:21 - Meet Monica Guzman: Author of "I Never Thought of It That Way"

01:36 - Is America More Divided Than Ever?

03:14 - Social Media, Outrage, and the Curiosity Crisis

05:27 - How to Have Difficult Conversations With Family

08:09 - The Power of Curiosity and Grace in Bridge Building

09:49 - Why "How" Questions Work Better Than "Why"

11:57 - Breaking Down Misconceptions About the Other Side

14:16 - Monica’s Sherman County Project: Liberals Meet Conservatives

18:30 - What Urban and Rural America Can Learn From Each Other

21:58 - Are We Really Hopelessly Divided?

24:16 - Why We Need Each Other: The Beating Heart of Democracy

27:00 - Signs of Hope: The Revolution of Conversation

29:10 - Sonder: Seeing the Humanity in Everyone

30:53 - Would You Rather: Monica’s Game on Difference

33:44 - Final Thoughts and Thank You to Monica Guzman

RESOURCES MENTIONED:

Connect with Monica:

https://www.moniguzman.com/book

https://braverangels.org/author/moniguzmangmail-com/

LINKS

On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wevegottotalk/

On Apple Podcasts: