What is Consciousness Really?

Professor Jonathan Schooler joins Dr Tevin Naidu the Mind-Body Solution Podcast for a deep exploration of consciousness, mind wandering, and the Nested Observer Windows (NOW) model. In this conversation, Schooler—founder of Meta Lab (Memory, Emotion, Thought & Awareness) at UCSB—explains why introspection can distort experience, how mind wandering reveals hidden layers of awareness, and why consciousness may be structured as a hierarchy of nested experiential windows.We explore:Why self-reports both matter and misleadMeta-awareness and the illusion of continuous attentionPanpsychism, idealism, and materialismSynchronization and coherence in conscious systemsThe three dimensions of time (objective, subjective, alternative)Free will, creativity, and openness to experienceConsciousness beyond the brain—and possibly beyond deathThis episode bridges psychology, neuroscience, philosophy, and physics, offering one of the clearest articulations of Schooler’s most ambitious ideas to date.TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) — Why Consciousness Is Paradoxical (04:24) — Why Introspection Distorts Experience (Verbal Overshadowing)(08:26) — How Scientists Measure Mind Wandering(11:25) — Do We Directly Access Experience or Construct It Later?(14:29) — Near-Death Experiences, Memory, and Illusion(17:43) — Evolutionary Advantages of Mind Wandering(20:35) — Inside Meta Lab: Memory, Emotion, Thought & Awareness(22:52) — Materialism vs Idealism vs Panpsychism(27:04) — Introducing the Nested Observer Windows (NOW) Model(30:49) — Consciousness as a Mosaic of Nested Windows(33:35) — Synchronization, Coherence & Cross-Frequency Coupling(41:50) — Why Information Is Lost as Awareness Scales Up(45:04) — Three Dimensions of Time Explained(50:51) — Why Science Struggles With Experience, Time & Free Will(55:09) — Subjective Time, Frame Rates & Flow of Consciousness(59:15) — Alternative Time & the Possibility of Free Will(1:05:46) — Measuring Subjective Time in the Brain(1:10:18) — Many Worlds Theory Reimagined Through Consciousness(1:18:48) — Creativity, Mind Wandering & Openness to Experience(2:01:09) — Consciousness, Openness & Humanity’s FutureEPISODE LINKS:- Jonathan's Website: https://labs.psych.ucsb.edu/schooler/jonathan/members/schooler- Jonathan's Publications: https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=3UEI9NIAAAAJ&hl=en- Jonathan's Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Schooler- Jonathan's X: https://twitter.com/JonathanSchool6CONNECT:- Website: https://mindbodysolution.org - YouTube: https://youtube.com/@mindbodysolution- Podcast: https://creators.spotify.com/pod/show/mindbodysolution- Twitter: https://twitter.com/drtevinnaidu- Facebook: https://facebook.com/drtevinnaidu - Instagram: https://instagram.com/drtevinnaidu- LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/drtevinnaidu- Website: https://tevinnaidu.com=============================Disclaimer: The information provided on this channel is for educational purposes only. The content is shared in the spirit of open discourse and does not constitute, nor does it substitute, professional or medical advice. We do not accept any liability for any loss or damage incurred from you acting or not acting as a result of listening/watching any of our contents. You acknowledge that you use the information provided at your own risk. Listeners/viewers are advised to conduct their own research and consult with their own experts in the respective fields.

In this Mind-Body Solution colloquium, Joshua Bongard and Richard Watson explore a single unifying question: Why get together?From cells forming multicellular organisms, to individuals forming societies, to components assembling into minds and machines - integration is one of the deepest patterns in nature. But why does it happen at all?TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) — Why Get Together? Opening framing: integration, relationship, and the central question of the episode(06:10) — From Parts to Wholes: Why explanation fails when systems are treated as isolated components(12:35) — Machines Within Machines: Bongard on nested systems, embodiment, and layered agency(18:40) — Evolution Isn’t Just Selection: Watson introduces the limits of natural selection as a creative explanation(25:10) — The “Engine” of Evolution: Fire vs engines: why selection alone misses the generative mechanism(31:45) — Natural Induction Explained: Evolution as relational reorganization, not frequency competition(38:20) — Learning, Adaptation, and Induction: How induction unifies evolution, cognition, and development(44:55) — Morphology Shapes Intelligence: Why bodies matter for minds (robots, organisms, and cognition)(51:30) — Embodiment as Constraint and Freedom: Physical form as a source of creativity, not limitation(57:50) — Love as a Scientific Question: Watson on care, attachment, and relational persistence(1:04:20) — What Holds Systems Together? Why stability emerges from relationships, not control(1:10:40) — Creativity Without Designers: No skyhooks: how novelty arises naturally without intelligent creators(1:17:15) — Artificial Life & Synthetic Minds: What robots teach us about evolution, intelligence, and cooperation(1:23:50) — Collective Intelligence: Crowds, swarms, societies, and shared cognition(1:30:30) — Meaning Beyond Optimization: Why efficiency alone cannot explain life, mind, or value(1:36:55) — Songs of Life and Mind: Watson’s unifying metaphor for evolution, learning, and becoming(1:43:30) — Ethics of Getting Together: Responsibility, care, and relational futures(1:49:45) — Why Disconnection Fails: What breaks when systems stop relating(1:55:10) — A New Integrative Science: Toward a framework beyond reductionism and mechanism(2:00:00) — Final Reflections: Why Get Together Now? Closing synthesis on integration, cooperation, and the futureEPISODE LINKS:- Josh's Website: https://jbongard.github.io/- Josh's Lab: https://www.meclab.org/- Josh's X: https://twitter.com/DoctorJosh- Josh's Publications: https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=Dj-kPasAAAAJ&hl=en- Josh's Round 1: https://youtu.be/3tTWKrLRYwI?si=doO99MnqW2TziiWC- Richard's Website: https://www.richardawatson.com/- Richard's Publications: https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=DBDLLYQAAAAJ&hl=en- Richard's X: https://twitter.com/RichardWatson90CONNECT:- Website: https://mindbodysolution.org - YouTube: https://youtube.com/@mindbodysolution- Podcast: https://creators.spotify.com/pod/show/mindbodysolution- Twitter: https://twitter.com/drtevinnaidu- Facebook: https://facebook.com/drtevinnaidu - Instagram: https://instagram.com/drtevinnaidu- LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/drtevinnaidu- Website: https://tevinnaidu.com=============================Disclaimer: The information provided on this channel is for educational purposes only. The content is shared in the spirit of open discourse and does not constitute, nor does it substitute, professional or medical advice. We do not accept any liability for any loss or damage incurred from you acting or not acting as a result of listening/watching any of our contents. You acknowledge that you use the information provided at your own risk. Listeners/viewers are advised to conduct their own research and consult with their own experts in the respective fields.

For over a century, neuroscience has assumed that consciousness is generated by the brain.But what if this assumption is wrong?In this episode of Mind-Body Solution, Dr. Tevin Naidu is joined by Professor Edward F. Kelly - co-author of Irreducible Mind, Beyond Physicalism, Consciousness Unbound (and many more) — to examine the empirical and conceptual evidence that consciousness cannot be fully explained by brain activity alone.TIMESTAMPS:00:00 – Introduction: The Limits of Brain-Based Models: Kelly’s career, scope of inquiry, and why physicalism fails to account for mind08:55 – First Direct Encounter with Psi Phenomena: Meeting high-performing experimental subjects and abandoning residual skepticism13:45 – Why Physicalism Cannot Accommodate Psi as Facts of Nature: Empirical accumulation forces a worldview shift17:10 – The Cultural Consequences of Reductive Materialism: How mechanistic metaphysics shapes ecological and existential crises21:30 – Irreducible Mind: Strategy and Scope: Why Kelly and colleagues targeted physicalism empirically first29:30 – Extreme Psychophysical Phenomena: Stigmata, maternal impressions, and mind–body influence beyond placebo33:50 – Dissociative Identity Disorder & Multiple Centers of Consciousness: Why unitary brain-mind assumptions break down37:20 – Near-Death Experiences Under Clinical Unconsciousness: Verified perception during anesthesia and cardiac arrest41:05 – Empirical vs Conceptual Failures of Materialism: Why both lines of critique are now unavoidable44:50 – The Need for a Post-Physicalist Theory: Why data alone can’t shift science without a new metaphysical framework49:25 – Beyond Physicalism: Surveying Alternative Worldviews: Idealism, dual-aspect monism, panentheism, and mystical traditions55:10 – Whitehead, Process Philosophy & Its Limits: Why mystical experience must be taken seriously as data59:20 – William James, the Subliminal Self & the Pluralistic Universe: Consciousness as layered, expansive, and not brain-produced1:03:35 – Consciousness Unbound: New Empirical Frontiers: Reincarnation cases, precognition, and psychedelic-induced mysticism1:07:45 – Bernardo Kastrup, Analytic Idealism & Survival Debates: Where Kelly agrees—and where he diverges1:11:30 – Physics, Possibility & Reality Beyond Actuality: Quantum foundations, potentiality, and expanded ontology1:15:55 – The New Book: Narrowing to Viable Post-Physicalist Theories: Why process philosophy and organismic biology are converging1:19:20 – Consciousness Below the Brain: Cells, Organisms & Evolution: Why mind may extend deep into life itself1:23:30 – Closing Reflections: Toward an Expanded Science of Mind: What replacing physicalism actually means for humanityEPISODE LINKS:- Ed's Website: https://med.virginia.edu/perceptual-studies/dops-staff/ed-kelly/- Ed's Publications: https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=q42C6BwAAAAJ&hl=en- Ed's Books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B001IU2STWCONNECT:- Website: https://mindbodysolution.org - YouTube: https://youtube.com/@MindBodySolution- Podcast: https://creators.spotify.com/pod/show/mindbodysolution- Twitter: https://twitter.com/drtevinnaidu- Facebook: https://facebook.com/drtevinnaidu - Instagram: https://instagram.com/drtevinnaidu- LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/drtevinnaidu- Website: https://tevinnaidu.com=============================Disclaimer: The information provided on this channel is for educational purposes only. The content is shared in the spirit of open discourse and does not constitute, nor does it substitute, professional or medical advice. We do not accept any liability for any loss or damage incurred from you acting or not acting as a result of listening/watching any of our contents. You acknowledge that you use the information provided at your own risk. Listeners/viewers are advised to conduct their own research and consult with their own experts in the respective fields.