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Today's ep ended up in a different place than Vanessa expected when she first sat down to chat with Pam Harris, founder of Math Is Figureoutable. Their first real interaction was on the DebateMath Podcast; Pam insisted that learning algorithms/shortcuts can actually hold students back from true learning, while Vanessa advocated for kids to learn however works for them.

Often, that's where it ends. Worse, especially in the "everyone yell at each other" media landscape, the conversation never begins! Which makes today's episode so refreshing - a debate that was more philosophical than ideological. Pam and Vanessa had the time to really go into depth about what they disagree on and where they see eye to eye ... spoiler alert, they're actually pretty aligned!

Links discussed:

• Math Is Figureoutable Podcast
• Free resource download: mathisfigureoutable/big
• #MathStratChat
• Vanessa & Pam debate algorithms on the DebateMath Podcast
• Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell

About Pam:

Pam Harris is a leading math educator, author, and speaker best known for her work on making math figure-out-able. Through her books, podcast, and teaching, she helps classrooms move away from rote memorization and answer-getting, and toward math as something students can sense-make, reason through, and truly understand. She’s passionate about showing that math isn’t about tricks or steps—it’s about thinking, starting with the knowledge students already bring to the table.

Connect with us:

• Pam Harris: Website, LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook
• Vanessa Vakharia: Instagram, TikTok, Email
• Math Therapy: Website, Text us

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We're trying something new this week! Last week's ep with Mike Flynn dove into some very murky debate waters: do students need to know the "why" of what their learning in order to truly understand material, or is it fine for them to just memorize things as long as they get the answers? (If you missed, scroll back in your feed or click here to catch up.)

But the real drama took place over on TikTok, where Vanessa posted a clip from the ep and some viewers engaged in very polite and erudite discussion in the comments ... jk, people LOST THEIR MINDS. But there were also a ton of great points that are often debated in math ed, so we invited Mike back on this week to respond to some comments real-time and clarify some of what he and Vanessa meant last week. Enjoy - and either way, you know where to let us know what you think ;)

Links discussed:

• How to find the "why" in math class w/ Mike Flynn (last week's ep)
• The TikTok that started it all
• Lost S2E01 - *why* was Desmond typing the numbers?!

Connect with us:

• Mike Flynn: Website, TikTok, Instagram
• Vanessa Vakharia: Instagram, TikTok, Email
• Math Therapy: Website, Text us

Send us a text! (US messaging rates apply)

When Mike Flynn started teaching, math was just one of many subjects he had to guide his students through. The problem was, the way he was taught math made him hate it!

But when a new career opportunity gave him the chance at a much deeper understanding of the concepts and a reason "why" they mattered in the real world, Mike realized that he wasn't confined to just teaching the way he was taught - he could give students and teachers the chance to value math right from the jump.

On today's episode he joins Vanessa to discuss:

• Why making mistakes is essential to deep mathematical understanding
• How shifting from “right answer” thinking to a focus on reasoning and flexible thinking can transform the way we approach math problems
• Strategies for helping students (and adults!) overcome math anxiety and see themselves as capable, creative problem solvers

Links discussed:

• Open Middle - for encouraging flexible thinking
  • Vanessa's interview with co-founder Robert Kaplinsky
• Books mentioned:
  • Beyond Answers: Exploring Mathematical Practices with Young Children by Mike Flynn
  • 5 Practices for Orchestrating Productive Mathematics Discussions by Peg Smith and Mary Kay Stein
  • Nix the Tricks: A guide to avoiding shortcuts that cut out math concept development by Tina Cardone

About Mike Flynn: (Website, Twitter, Instagram)

Mike Flynn is an internationally recognized math educator, Director of Math Programs at Mount Holyoke College, and founder of Flynn Education. He has led professional development for teachers around the world, authored Beyond Answers: Exploring Mathematical Practices with Young Children, and served on the NCTM Board. His work focuses on helping teachers move beyond rigid instruction to curiosity-driven, identity-building math learning.

Connect with Math Therapy:

• Text the podcast
• DM Vanessa on Instagram
• Email Vanessa

Shop the Math Therapy collection:

• paperback/ebook
• audiobook (US, Can, UK, Aus, Germany, or global)
• merch store

Send us a text! (US messaging rates apply)

If you follow Vanessa on Instagram, you know the rollercoaster she went on to record the audiobook version of Math Therapy ... well, the hard work / literal sweat & tears paid off because it is now out! You can find it on Audible/Amazon right now, and if you have never used Audible you can likely get it for a free credit with their new trial offer. (It will be on Spotify soon as well, let us know if there's any other platform it should be added to.)

We wanted to share an exclusive sample with our listeners, so this week's episode features the entire preface, which is also a great introduction to Vanessa's story and how she came up with Math Therapy in the first place! And if you do end up getting the full audiobook please leave a rating/review and share it with a friend ❤️

Shop the Math Therapy collection:

• paperback/ebook
• audiobook (US, Can, UK, Aus, Germany, or global)
• merch store

Connect with Math Therapy:

• Text the podcast
• DM Vanessa on Instagram
• Email Vanessa

Send us a text! (US messaging rates apply)

Have you ever felt like it's impossible to win an argument with someone, or even simply see eye to eye on anything? On today's episode, mathematician Eugenia Cheng joins Vanessa to challenge the black-and-white thinking that often defines our world - especially in math class.

3 Key Topics Discussed:

1. Why seemingly silly questions like "is math real?" or "when does 1 + 1 not equal 2?" are both valid and valuable
2. How Eugenia works to help people overcome math trauma the way she overcame ... sports trauma!
3. How emphasizing context, creativity, and nuance - not just right or wrong answers - can help students develop more flexible and creative thinking

Show notes:

• Eugenia on The Late Show with Stephen Colbert
• Eugenia discussing viral "Is Math Real" TikTok on CBC Radio

About Eugenia Cheng: (Website, Twitter)

Dr Eugenia Cheng is a mathematician, educator, author, public speaker, columnist, concert pianist, composer and artist. Alongside her research and undergraduate teaching, her aim is to rid the world of “math phobia”. Her first popular math book, How to Bake Pi, was published by Profile (UK)/Basic Books (US) in 2015 to widespread acclaim including from the New York Times, National Geographic, Scientific American, and she was interviewed around the world including on the BBC, NPR and The Late Show with Stephen Colbert.

Connect with Math Therapy:

• Text the podcast
• DM Vanessa on Instagram
• Email Vanessa

Shop the Math Therapy collection:

• paperback/ebook
• audiobook (US, Can, UK, Aus, Germany, or global)
• merch store

Send us a text! (US messaging rates apply)

Today we celebrate back to school week with ... the official launch of Math Therapy as a weekly podcast!

On today's episode, Vanessa catches you up on everything going on in Math Therapy-land, and shares 5 very simple and quick strategies that teachers can employ to make this year's classroom more empowering - both for students and themselves.

5 low-lift Math Therapy strategies for the new school year:

1. Watch your facial expressions
2. Watch your language
3. Ask students about their thinking process
4. Get on your student's level - literally
5. Ask students about their "math story"

Announcements

• Weekly format - tell us what you'd like to hear!
  • Text the podcast
  • DM Vanessa on Instagram
  • Email Vanessa
• Math Therapy is now an Audiobook!
  • Listen/Buy on Audible (US, Can, UK, Aus, Germany, or global)
  • Spotify coming soon, stay tuned!
  • Let us know if it should be added to any other platforms

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As long as Charizma Laughton can remember, her entire life was defined by a singular identity: she's bad at math, because she's not smart. This self-image was rooted in deeply traumatic math class experiences that completely dismantled her self-confidence and made her feel like she was simply not capable of ... anything.

BUT THEN: she and Vanessa met after a yoga class in Bali recently, and after a mere two weeks of math therapy sessions together, Charizma had done a complete 180 (see what we did there?) and now has an entirely new outlook on not just math but on her entire life! And she was brave and courageous enough to come on the podcast to tell the whole story.

Charizma's turbulent relationship with math will sound familiar, but what makes this episode one of a kind is her openness to rewriting her narratives, her commitment to confronting her fears, and the joy in her voice as she triumphantly declares herself not just a math person but a full-on mathematician!

Send this episode to the anyone in your life that recoils in fear at the word "math" - if Charizma can rewrite her story, anyone can.

• Connect with Vanessa: @themathguru (Insta, Twitter, TikTok)

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First of all, big news: as of this fall, Math Therapy will be a weekly podcast! This has long been a goal, so after 6 glorious 10-episode seasons and a bunch of bonus eps along the way, we'll be hitting your feed every single Thursday starting September.

For now, we are back this month with 2 special interviews we recorded earlier in the year with some friends we made in Bali, Indonesia. (Next week's episode will legit blow your mind!!)

Today, Vanessa explores the power of intuition and its role in math education with Rebecca McLeod, an artist/designer, yogi/meditator, and all around chill vibe. Rebecca shares how discovering sacred geometry as an adult led her to reconnect with math and examine the idea of a deep and inner sense of knowing. They discuss how this kind of intuitive thinking can help students engage with math on a more personal (and, dare we say, spiritual!) level, and how that can help them build real confidence in their learning. They also share practical tips for both teachers and students to tap into their intuition, and highlight the importance of creating a loving and curiosity-driven math classroom.

If you've ever struggled with math anxiety or felt disconnected from math, this episode offers a fresh, grounded, and empowering outlook.

Show notes:

• The Ancient Secret of the Flower of Life, Vol 1 by Drunvalo Melchizedek
• The Flower of Life (google image search)
• Wikipedia article on Sacred Geometry
• Connect with Rebecca on Instagram @rebxxart
• Connect with Vanessa: @themathguru (Insta, Twitter, TikTok)