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Today we follow-up last week's episode with unfiltered celeb moms Cat and Nat (listen here) by interviewing Nat's daughter Taylor! Currently in Grade 11, she's a wealth of hard-earned wisdom, having taken her education into her own hands to overcome a system that literally told her not to bother even trying.

This ep is overflowing with real lessons right from a student who's been through it all. Taylor describes:

• how being "bad" at math really felt & how she decided to rewrite her narrative
• small supports that made a huge difference, like teachers/tutors talking to her like a real person or literally getting down to her level instead of standing over her in class
• how she wished it hadn't taken so long in her educational journey for adults to simply tell her they believed in her

Teachers, parents, and students can all learn so much from Taylor's story, so share this ep with someone who needs to hear it and get in touch below to let us know how it resonated with you!

About Taylor: (Instagram, TikTok)

Taylor Telfer-Thompson is a high school student who has faced significant struggles with math throughout her education, but has never given up. Her story shows what it looks like to persevere in the face of difficulty, to wrestle with identity, and to keep trying even when math feels impossible.

Contact us:

• Vanessa Vakharia: Instagram, TikTok, Email
• Math Therapy: Text the Podcast

More Math Therapy:

• Get the book: Corwin, Amazon
• Audiobook: Audible, Spotify
• Merch store: Shop here

Send us a text! (US messaging rates apply)

From the moment Vanessa met bestselling authors/podcasters Cat and Nat on Breakfast Television, where the 2 moms proudly professed to hate math ... she knew she had to have them on Math Therapy to dig deeper and find out why. They are the definition of unfiltered, so they are a perfect fit!

This interview may be uncomfortable for teachers to hear - honestly, it was difficult for Vanessa at times to not be defensive. But the fact is, we need to know what students and parents are really going through; not just in the classroom but in their entire, completely chaotic modern lives.

About Cat and Nat: (Website, Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, YouTube)

Between the two of them, bestselling authors & podcasters Cat & Nat have seven kids, zero down time, and an unshakable belief that motherhood shouldn’t feel like solitary confinement.

Contact us:

• Vanessa Vakharia: Instagram, TikTok, Email
• Math Therapy: Text the Podcast

More Math Therapy:

• Get the book: Corwin, Amazon
• Audiobook: Audible, Spotify
• Merch store: Shop here

Send us a text! (US messaging rates apply)

*call-out before we get into today's ep* - If you or a colleague/parent/student has a story about incorporating the absurd 6-7 phenomenon into actual learning, we need you! Seriously, send us a brief text or a voicenote via Instagram DM or email. We've heard some stories and want to do an episode about enhancing learning by reaching kids through their interests (no matter how ridiculous we think they are...)

On today's episode w/ Rob Baier:

Vanessa often goes into our interviews with a thorough plan, and then as soon as we hit record she instead asks the first random thing that pops into her mind and never looks at the outline again. Well, today's episode with trailblazer Rob Baier is one of those rollercoasters! Some of the rabbit holes they end up in include:

• how our assessment systems contribute to math anxiety/trauma
• why we actually became so obsessed with getting every student into calculus
• what student learning has in common with binging an entire season of Ginny and Georgia (spoiler alert: we have it all backwards)

About Rob: (LinkedIn)

Rob is passionate about inspiring the next generation of math enthusiasts! As a Growth Lead at Innovamat, Rob is dedicated to bringing innovative math education solutions to schools across three states. With a diverse background in education, including roles as a math teacher, curriculum director, and professional development leader, he is committed to empowering educators and students. He is also a co-host of the #DebateMath podcast and a frequent presenter at national and regional conferences.

Contact us:

• Vanessa Vakharia: Instagram, TikTok, Email
• Math Therapy: Text the Podcast

More Math Therapy:

• Get the book: Corwin, Amazon
• Audiobook: Audible, Spotify
• Merch store: Shop here

Send us a text! (US messaging rates apply)

This past weekend, hearts across North America shattered as the plucky underdog Toronto Blue Jays lost to the LA Dodgers in extra innings of the deciding Game 7 of the Major League Baseball World Series. And if none of those words matter to you at all - then you and Vanessa have much in common!

However, as a self-admitted bandwagon jumper, even though she was down in the US on a math ed conference tour, she was all in on this series and sucked a bunch of colleagues into her orbit along the way. While this is obviously not a sports podcast, she and her teacher friends couldn't help observe parallels between what they saw on the field & went through together as new fans, compared with what they see day to day in their students' journeys through the education system.

So Vanessa and David jumped on to discuss some of these parallels, share some voice memos from her teachers-turned-superfans group chat, and even call in a pinch hitter (a term she learned last week) to share the inside scoop on what might actually be going through these pro athletes' minds in the most high pressure situations imaginable and how a student can approach a math test the same way.

The dream team: (aka teachers Vanessa literally forced to watch the games)

• Jenna Laib (Website, Bluesky)
• Alison Mello (Website, Instagram)
• Kim Montague (Instagram, Bluesky)
• Shelby Strong (Website, Bluesky)

Guest "analyst": (aka ex-Olympic athlete / current math ed rock star)

• Peter Liljedahl (Website, Instagram)
• Past ep: Teaching students to ... think?! w/ Peter Liljedahl

Contact us:

• Vanessa Vakharia: Instagram, TikTok, Email
• Math Therapy: Text the Podcast

More Math Therapy:

• Get the book: Corwin, Amazon
• Audiobook: Audible, Spotify
• Merch store: Shop here

Send us a text! (US messaging rates apply)

Most episodes, Vanessa is chatting with colleagues about the root causes of math anxiety/trauma and exploring how math education can change to avoid causing them.

But as long as math remains a 4-letter word for some, we need some practical coping strategies! So today, Vanessa details 5 ways you can flip anxious math moments into empowering ones - for teachers, parents, and students.

Learn how to:

1. Trade control for curiosity
2. Admit what you don't know
3. Not be afraid to follow tangents in class
4. Coregulate before you educate
5. Heal your own math trauma

Other episodes mentioned:

• How to find the "why" in math class w/ Mike Flynn
• Why 1 + 1 isn't always 2 w/ Eugenia Cheng
• 5 simple Math Therapy strategies for your classroom

Contact us:

• Vanessa Vakharia: Instagram, TikTok, Email
• Math Therapy: Text the Podcast

More Math Therapy:

• Get the book: Corwin, Amazon
• Audiobook: Audible, Spotify
• Merch store: Shop here

Send us a text! (US messaging rates apply)

Sometimes an interview fires us up so much here at Math Therapy HQ, that we end up debriefing and debating it long after the guest has signed off - at which point producer David says to host Vanessa "we should have recorded THAT too!"

So today, we actually did! We kept the mics rolling after interviewing last week's guest, Dr. Raj Shah, resulting in a discussion on the mechanics of memory & aptitude and a spirited debate as David pushed back against Vanessa's war on the words "natural ability".

We would LOVE to have an expert in this field on the podcast, so if you have any suggestions let us know!

And we want to know what you think as well - are some people born better at some things than others?! Let us know below!

Episodes referenced:

• Why math sucks and how to fix it w/ Raj Shah
• Math ed needs more conversations like this w/ Pam Harris

Contact us:

• Vanessa Vakharia: Instagram, TikTok, Email
• Math Therapy: Text the Podcast

More Math Therapy:

• Get the book: Corwin, Amazon
• Audiobook: Audible, Spotify
• Merch store: Shop here

Send us a text! (US messaging rates apply)

What is memory? Are different brains good at memorizing different things (like math vs music)? Is memorization even a good way to learn? Why don’t we teach math like we teach reading? Why do we love puzzles and escape rooms but hate math class? Is it possible to make math learning fun?? Will Vanessa ever learn how to explain how to text the podcast?!?! How does this all relate to math trauma?!?!?!

Ok. Deep breaths. Today's ep with Dr. Raj Shah was a rollercoaster, as every question spawned 10 more! Connecting the big thorny debates of math education with the humanity and complexity of what students are actually experiencing in their minds and bodies, Vanessa and Raj laughed, cried, and one of them even broke out into song (probably not the one you expected!)

If you need a triple shot of inspiration, hope, and laughter today, this episode is for you.

Show notes:

• Raj’s TED Talk "Using Video Game Principles to Improve Math Scores"
• Ted Lasso scene "Be curious, not judgmental"
• All of Me by John Legend
• Good Inside by Becky Kennedy
• Annie Fetter “Notice and Wonder”
• Math Therapy S5E06: Redefining Success
• Send us your 3 superpowers!

About Raj: (Website, LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook)

Dr. Raj Shah is the founder of Math Plus Academy, a founding member of the Global Math Project, and a leading voice in making math irresistible. Raj is passionate about creating math experiences that feel joyful and accessible, drawing inspiration from everything from video game design to human psychology. Beyond math, Raj is deeply interested in spirituality and therapy, seeing connections between how we approach math, how we heal shame, and how we make sense of the world.

Contact us:

• Vanessa Vakharia: Instagram, TikTok, Email
• Math Therapy: Text the Podcast

More Math Therapy:

• Get the book: Corwin, Amazon
• Audiobook: Audible, Spotify
• Merch store: Shop here

Send us a text! (US messaging rates apply)

Today's ep ended up in a different place than Vanessa expected when she first sat down to chat with Pam Harris, founder of Math Is Figureoutable. Their first real interaction was on the DebateMath Podcast; Pam insisted that learning algorithms/shortcuts can actually hold students back from true learning, while Vanessa advocated for kids to learn however works for them.

Often, that's where it ends. Worse, especially in the "everyone yell at each other" media landscape, the conversation never begins! Which makes today's episode so refreshing - a debate that was more philosophical than ideological. Pam and Vanessa had the time to really go into depth about what they disagree on and where they see eye to eye ... spoiler alert, they're actually pretty aligned!

Links discussed:

• Math Is Figureoutable Podcast
• Free resource download: mathisfigureoutable/big
• #MathStratChat
• Vanessa & Pam debate algorithms on the DebateMath Podcast
• Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell

About Pam: (Website, LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook)

Pam Harris is a leading math educator, author, and speaker best known for her work on making math figure-out-able. Through her books, podcast, and teaching, she helps classrooms move away from rote memorization and answer-getting, and toward math as something students can sense-make, reason through, and truly understand. She’s passionate about showing that math isn’t about tricks or steps—it’s about thinking, starting with the knowledge students already bring to the table.

Contact us:

• Vanessa Vakharia: Instagram, TikTok, Email
• Math Therapy: Text the Podcast

More Math Therapy:

• Get the book: Corwin, Amazon
• Audiobook: Audible, Spotify
• Merch store: Shop here