What if we've been asking the wrong question all along? Instead of waiting for institutions that are failing us to finally come to the rescue, what if our real survival has always depended on each other? This week, Dean Spade returns to the podcast to join Nora and Marcus for a timely conversation about the newly updated edition of Mutual Aid. Together they unpack why mutual aid isn't charity but a practice of solidarity, resistance, and collective power with a long and radical history. From authoritarianism and democratic backsliding to climate disruption and collapsing public institutions, Spade argues that the way through this moment isn't individual resilience or hoping for our institutions to save us, but communities learning to organize, care for one another, and build the relationships that make a different future possible. If you've been wondering what hope looks like in hard times, this conversation offers something more powerful: a roadmap for action.

Mentioned in the episode:

ICE Murders | Detention Center Deaths | Mutual Aid | Love in a F*cked Up World [book] and [podcast] | Five Questions for Cultivating Solidarity | In Defense of Looting | Tiny Gardens Everywhere | Death Panel Podcast | Love in a Fucked up World: Resentment | An Unquiet Mind | 2025 Andrew Carnegie Fellow: Nora Kenworthy

Follow and Support Dean's work:

Dean Spade - Patreon

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Read Nora and Marcus's Books:

Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

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Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.

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