In Part Two of this two-part conversation, hosts Christopher Mooney, LCSW and Kenyon Phillips, LMSW continue their dialogue with grief, loss, and bereavement therapist and Fordham University professor Kat Hurley, LCSW—exploring what grief actually looks like in the mind, body, and daily life. Kat shares powerful ways of understanding loss, including the idea that grief doesn’t shrink over time and that the real work of grief is learning how to carry it. The conversation expands into grief literacy, and unpacking the emotional, cognitive, and physical symptoms—like brain fog, irritability, exhaustion, and dissociation—that often make grieving people feel like they’re “going crazy." Along the way, they explore concepts like anticipatory grief, disenfranchised grief, and ambiguous loss—forms of grief that often go unrecognized or unsupported. Ultimately, this episode invites listeners to rethink their relationship with loss and mortality by reminding us that confronting grief can deepen our compassion, clarify what matters most, and help us live more fully while we’re here.

To learn more about Kat Hurley, LCSW, visit the Alis Volat Propriis Place website and connect with her on LinkedIn and Instagram.

Four book titles that Kat recommends in this episode for people facing grief, loss, and bereavement:
Bearing the Unbearable: Love, Loss, and the Heartbreaking Path of Grief by Joanne Cacciatore, PhD
It’s OK That You're Not OK: Meeting Grief and Loss in a Culture That Doesn't Understand by Megan Devine, LPC
The Wild Edge of Sorrow: Rituals of Renewal and the Sacred Work of Grief by Francis Weller
Signs: The Secret Language of the Universe by Laura Lynne Jackson

To book a free consultation with Christopher, Kenyon, or the other providers at Lumen Therapy Collective, visit lumentherapycollective.com.

Follow Lumen on Instagram: @lumen_therapy_collective

Subscribe, share, and review Lumen on your favorite podcast platform!

Lumen is for educational and informational purposes only and is not a substitute for therapy, diagnosis, or treatment. If you’re experiencing a mental health crisis, please contact local emergency services or a trusted mental health professional.

In Part One of this two-part conversation, hosts Christopher Mooney, LCSW and Kenyon Phillips, LMSW sit down with grief, loss, and bereavement therapist and Fordham University professor Kat Hurley, LCSW to explore what it really means to companion people through life’s most vulnerable moments. Kat shares her unexpected journey from professional dancer to “grief nerd,” and unpacks the often-misunderstood world of palliative care—what it is, what it isn’t, and why it matters long before the moment of death. The conversation moves into grief beyond death, including divorce, identity shifts, empty nesting, and the loss of the “assumptive world”—the moment when life no longer looks the way we thought it would. This episode is about courage, clarity, and the power of having honest conversations before, during, and after we experience a loss. It's also a reminder that we don't have to face our grief alone.

To learn more about Kat Hurley, LCSW, visit the Alis Volat Propriis Place website and connect with her on LinkedIn and Instagram.

To book a free consultation with Christopher, Kenyon, or the other providers at Lumen Therapy Collective, visit lumentherapycollective.com.

Follow Lumen on Instagram: @lumen_therapy_collective

Subscribe, share, and review Lumen on your favorite podcast platform!

Lumen is for educational and informational purposes only and is not a substitute for therapy, diagnosis, or treatment. If you’re experiencing a mental health crisis, please contact local emergency services or a trusted mental health professional.

"I'm fine." It's a lie that so many men tell. Not only to others, but to themselves. In this episode of Lumen, hosts Christopher Mooney, LCSW and Kenyon Phillips, LMSW explore the quiet conditioning that teaches boys to “shake it off,” “man up,” and never let anyone see them cry. From scraped knees and hockey rinks to boys’ dormitories and adult relationships, they unpack how early praise for toughness can harden into emotional isolation. When vulnerability is equated with weakness, many men are left with only two socially acceptable settings: silence or anger. Drawing from clinical experience and personal reflection, they examine how suppressed emotion can morph into depression, anxiety, explosive rage, or a painful sense of disconnection—and how the pressure to fix rather than feel keeps real intimacy at bay. At its core, this conversation challenges a cultural script that rewards stoicism while quietly eroding connection, and offers a radical reframe: expressing what hurts is not weakness, but strength. Because healing doesn't always begin with solving the problem. Sometimes it begins with simply being heard.

To book a free consultation with Christopher, Kenyon, or the other providers at Lumen Therapy Collective, visit lumentherapycollective.com.

Follow Lumen on Instagram: @lumen_therapy_collective

Subscribe, share, and review Lumen on your favorite podcast platform!

Lumen is for educational and informational purposes only and is not a substitute for therapy, diagnosis, or treatment. If you’re experiencing a mental health crisis, please contact local emergency services or a trusted mental health professional.