In part 2 of this 2-part series, the conversation delves further into the complexities of fundamental dishonesty within the legal system, particularly in relation to rehabilitation and recovery. Lois Norris, a barrister, shares her insights on the importance of thoroughness, transparency, and integrity in clinical and legal practice. The discussion also highlights the challenges faced by clients in navigating their claims and the emotional toll of being accused of dishonesty. The episode emphasises the need for professionals to maintain a balance between scrutiny and support for their clients, ensuring that the process remains fair and just for all parties involved.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Part 2

01:33 Understanding Inconsistency and Honesty

04:21 The Emotional Journey of Claimants

07:47 Navigating Integrity and Transparency

11:36 The Role of Scrutiny in Rehabilitation

16:39 The Balance of Fairness in Legal Processes

21:54 Future Directions in Addressing Dishonesty

26:31 Rehabilitation as Evidence in Legal Cases

31:22 Misconceptions About the Legal Profession

36:27 Introduction to Thoroughness and Transparency

37:19 The Role of Detail in Professional Practice

38:22 The Importance of Authenticity and Integrity

38:45 Reflections on Imposter Syndrome and Mentorship

39:59 Closing Thoughts

Credits:

Patrick Boyd - Co-host/Producer

Dr Ben Marram - Co-host/Producer

Lois Norris - Guest

©2026 Patrick Boyd & Ben Marram. All rights Reserved.

In this episode of Listening First, Patrick and Ben speak with barrister Lois Norris for part 1 of their 2-part series which explores the complex topic of fundamental dishonesty in personal injury claims. Lois shares her insights on how dishonesty is defined within the legal framework (in the UK), referencing a landmark case involving edge sorting at a casino that reached the Supreme Court. The discussion delves into the nuances of what constitutes dishonesty, emphasising the importance of an objective standard based on societal perceptions. Lois explains the distinction between general dishonesty and fundamental dishonesty, highlighting how the latter can significantly impact the outcome of a claim, including the potential for dismissal and financial repercussions for claimants.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Lois Norris and Her Journey into Law

06:52 Understanding the Role of Barristers vs. Solicitors

09:33 Defining Dishonesty in Legal Terms

12:41 The Concept of Fundamental Dishonesty

15:43 Consequences of Fundamental Dishonesty

17:39 Real-Life Implications and Case Examples

20:49 The Impact of Memory and Inconsistency in Claims

23:59 Social Media's Role in Perceptions of Dishonesty

26:54 The Human Element in Rehabilitation and Recovery

29:54 White Coat Syndrome and Its Implications

37:56 Exploring Dishonesty in Law

39:06 Anticipating the Role of a Barrister

39:33 Outro/Credits

Credits:

Patrick Boyd - Co-host/Producer

Dr Ben Marram - Co-host/Producer

Lois Norris - Guest

©2026 Patrick Boyd & Ben Marram. All rights Reserved.

"Music can do far more than you think." - Elizabeth Nightingale

In this episode, Ben and Patrick explore the transformative power of music therapy, particularly neurologic music therapy (NMT), in rehabilitation. Elizabeth Nightingale, a neurologic music therapist, shares her insights on how music can facilitate cognitive, emotional, and physical healing. The conversation delves into various techniques used in NMT, the neuroscience behind music's impact on the brain, and the importance of integrating music therapy within multidisciplinary teams. Elizabeth emphasises the significance of personalising music therapy to each client's unique experiences and cultural backgrounds, highlighting its role in fostering connections and enhancing overall wellbeing.

Elizabeth is an experienced Neurologic Music Therapist, bringing over ten years of specialist clinical practice within acute, inpatient, and community neurorehabilitation. She has worked with both children and adults across a wide range of settings, and has expertise in acquired brain injury, cerebral palsy, disorders of consciousness, and aphasia. She is a registered Neurologic Music Therapy® Fellow affiliate of the Academy of Neurologic Music Therapy® and is trained in the Music Therapy Assessment Tool for Awareness in Disorders of Consciousness (MATADOC). Since 2018, Elizabeth has worked as an Expert Witness, drawing on her wide-ranging clinical experience to identify and cost appropriate NMT provision and specialist equipment for children and adults with neurological diagnoses. Alongside her clinical work, she actively contributes to the profession through several voluntary roles, including positions on the NMT™ Academy Advisory Council, Acquired Brain Injury London, and as Learning Disability Network Coordinator for the British Association for Music Therapy (BAMT).

A few key links:

1. Neurologic Music Therapy® website for those interested to learn more about NMT™, the research base, and training options: www.nmtacademy.co
2. Music and the Brain visual: https://www.merriammusic.com/research/the-neuro-plastic-side-of-melodies-how-music-rewires-the-brains-cognitive-sockets/
3. Example video of NMT™ sensorimotor techniques in action for a patient who sustained a TBI: https://youtu.be/cq8fv3Hpoao?si=gWmgnB0I8yeNQ_dr
4. Nightingale NMT™ website: www.nightingalenmt.co.uk
5. NMT™ at the heart of rehab visual: https://www.instagram.com/p/DReX9bNDXoG/?igsh=MW83a3R1a3JuNmRweA==

Guest

Elizabeth Nightingale, Neurologic Music Therapist, Nightingale NMT

www.listeningfirstpod.com

© 2025 Patrick Boyd & Dr Ben Marram. All rights reserved.