Today's guest is Lily Zheng, a strategist and consultant who has spent the last decade working with organizations of every size — from small nonprofits to Fortune 500 companies — helping them build workplaces that actually work for everyone. In a field often clouded by ideology, misinformation, and polarization, Lily brings something refreshingly different: data, systems thinking, and practical results.

They were a guest on the podcast before, so today we just focus on their new book, Fixing Fairness: Four Tenets to Transform Diversity Backlash Into Progress for All , Lily argues that the conversation around DEI has gone off track — not because fairness doesn’t matter, but because we’ve failed to communicate and implement it effectively. Instead of slogans or superficial programs, they offer FAIR - a framework built around measurable outcomes, systems change, coalition-building, and true win-win solutions.

In this conversation, we explore:

1. Why being “pro-diversity” isn’t the same as creating fair systems
2. The surprising data gap between support for diversity and belief in DEI programs
3. What actually works — and what has failed — over 60 years of workplace reform
4. How leaders can build coalitions across difference
5. And why fairness may be the language that can move us forward

Contact Dino at: dino@al4ep.com

Websites:

lilyzheng.co

al4ep.com

Additional Guest Links:

Lily on AL4EP

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/lilyzheng308

Instagram: @lilyzheng308

Books:

Fixing Fairness

Reconstructing DEI

DEI Deconstructed

Authentic Leadership For Everyday People / Dino Cattaneo

Dino on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/dinocattaneo

Podcast Instagram – @al4edp

Podcast Twitter –...