n Episode 9 of Lean Coffee Talk, Mark Graban and Jamie Flinchbaugh begin with World Cup observations that turn into a broader discussion about process measures, results, technology, officiating, and why referees are rarely the primary reason a team loses.

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Over coffee—cold brew for Mark and a pour-over for Jamie—they examine Toyota’s work with coffee farmers in Thailand. Through irrigation improvements, standardized work, experimentation, and a long-term focus on quality, the farmers raised their coffee’s cupping score from commercial grade to specialty quality.

The conversation then moves to automation in the auto industry. Mark and Jamie discuss Hyundai’s plans to deploy Boston Dynamics’ humanoid Atlas robots, worker concerns about job security, and the potential to use automation for work that is dirty, dangerous, or dull. They also examine the misleading appearance of cause and effect when GM lays off more than 1,000 workers while adding 50 robots.

They then turn to Ford’s long-running struggle to make quality a lasting priority. What does it mean to build a quality culture? How much responsibility belongs to manufacturing, engineering, product design, or leadership? And why must engineers go to the gemba to understand whether a product is realistically—and robustly—designed for production?

Finally, Mark and Jamie critique Burger King’s attempt at a quality turnaround, including its new “Your Way Champion” role. Is this another attempt to inspect quality into the product, or a useful shift in management attention toward customers and execution? They also consider the risks of advertising an improved customer experience before the operating system can deliver it consistently.

Mark Graban and Jamie Flinchbaugh sit down with single-origin coffees and a 1987 GM Confidential report Mark pulled from the Don Ephlin papers at Wayne State's Reuther Library. The document, "NUMMI Management Practices: Executive Summary," lays out five management strategies behind the joint venture's success and the line that ties them together: "The key to NUMMI's success is not its tools or techniques, but the management philosophy that gives meaning to them." So why couldn't GM replicate it?

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Before NUMMI, the conversation runs through:

• Jamie's report from a Lehigh symposium on AI in supply chain (Penske, NFI, Crayola, Sharp Services) and judging Lehigh's entrepreneurial pitch competition
• Mark's two-week run at the LEI Lean Summit in Houston and Shingo Connect in San Diego, plus a regional FIRST robotics competition
• AI in continuous improvement, including Mark's Socratic Lean coach (free 48-hour trial)
• Single-origin coffee: Jamie's Peru from Huabal / San Pablo, Mark's Burundi Cankuzo Province bourbon-variety bean from Elliott Coffee in Dayton, KY (sourced via JNP Coffee), and the power dynamics the fair-trade label doesn't fix
• A Lean Whiskey detour on the rumored Sazerac, Brown-Forman, and Pernod Ricard moves, the bullwhip effect rippling back to a shuttered Kentucky barrel mill, and the cautionary tale of Stroh's (now back, brewed at Brew Detroit)

The main segment works through the NUMMI report's five management strategies, why GM tried to redistribute the original "NUMMI commandos" one at a time, why Toyota deliberately avoided hiring auto-industry people for Georgetown, what NUMMI didn't solve (product design, activist investors, the UAW's missed opening), and where Bob Lutz's Car Guys vs. Bean Counters fits in. Mark also notes the Toyota Way 2001 document still isn't freely available online. Some lessons you have to go find.

To close: Big Mistakes (Dan Levy, Netflix), and, prompted by the Artemis II launch, the case for Apollo 13 and Hidden Figures as the best of the genre.

Resources mentioned:

• NUMMI Management Practices: Executive Summary, January 1987 (Don Ephlin papers, Walter P. Reuther Library, Wayne State University)
• Bob Lutz, Car Guys vs. Bean Counters
• Sweet Maria's green coffee
• Elliott Coffee, Dayton, KY / JNP Coffee
• Brew Detroit (Stroh's)
• Big Mistakes (Netflix)
• Mark's Socratic Lean coach (48-hour free trial)
• Jamie's newsletter (Apollo 13 / strategic problem-solving in flight)

How many KPIs are too many — and how do leaders know which metrics actually matter?

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In Episode 7 of Lean Coffee Talk, Mark Graban and Jamie Flinchbaugh explore how organizations overload themselves with metrics, why some “red” indicators fail to drive action, and how to evaluate whether KPIs are still relevant. They also discuss the role of change management in Lean transformations, why people don’t resist change itself but fear things getting worse, and how engaging employees early leads to more sustainable improvement.

Along the way, they connect lessons from Olympic controversies, construction megaprojects, coffee brewing methods, and even Starbucks stir sticks to core Lean ideas about customer value and “jobs to be done.”

A thoughtful, wide-ranging conversation about leadership, measurement, culture, and curiosity.