Mark Graban and Jamie Flinchbaugh sit down with single-origin coffees and a 1987 GM Confidential report Mark pulled from the Don Ephlin papers at Wayne State's Reuther Library. The document, "NUMMI Management Practices: Executive Summary," lays out five management strategies behind the joint venture's success and the line that ties them together: "The key to NUMMI's success is not its tools or techniques, but the management philosophy that gives meaning to them." So why couldn't GM replicate it?

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Before NUMMI, the conversation runs through:

• Jamie's report from a Lehigh symposium on AI in supply chain (Penske, NFI, Crayola, Sharp Services) and judging Lehigh's entrepreneurial pitch competition
• Mark's two-week run at the LEI Lean Summit in Houston and Shingo Connect in San Diego, plus a regional FIRST robotics competition
• AI in continuous improvement, including Mark's Socratic Lean coach (free 48-hour trial)
• Single-origin coffee: Jamie's Peru from Huabal / San Pablo, Mark's Burundi Cankuzo Province bourbon-variety bean from Elliott Coffee in Dayton, KY (sourced via JNP Coffee), and the power dynamics the fair-trade label doesn't fix
• A Lean Whiskey detour on the rumored Sazerac, Brown-Forman, and Pernod Ricard moves, the bullwhip effect rippling back to a shuttered Kentucky barrel mill, and the cautionary tale of Stroh's (now back, brewed at Brew Detroit)

The main segment works through the NUMMI report's five management strategies, why GM tried to redistribute the original "NUMMI commandos" one at a time, why Toyota deliberately avoided hiring auto-industry people for Georgetown, what NUMMI didn't solve (product design, activist investors, the UAW's missed opening), and where Bob Lutz's Car Guys vs. Bean Counters fits in. Mark also notes the Toyota Way 2001 document still isn't freely available online. Some lessons you have to go find.

To close: Big Mistakes (Dan Levy, Netflix), and, prompted by the Artemis II launch, the case for Apollo 13 and Hidden Figures as the best of the genre.

Resources mentioned:

• NUMMI Management Practices: Executive Summary, January 1987 (Don Ephlin papers, Walter P. Reuther Library, Wayne State University)
• Bob Lutz, Car Guys vs. Bean Counters
• Sweet Maria's green coffee
• Elliott Coffee, Dayton, KY / JNP Coffee
• Brew Detroit (Stroh's)
• Big Mistakes (Netflix)
• Mark's Socratic Lean coach (48-hour free trial)
• Jamie's newsletter (Apollo 13 / strategic problem-solving in flight)

How many KPIs are too many — and how do leaders know which metrics actually matter?

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In Episode 7 of Lean Coffee Talk, Mark Graban and Jamie Flinchbaugh explore how organizations overload themselves with metrics, why some “red” indicators fail to drive action, and how to evaluate whether KPIs are still relevant. They also discuss the role of change management in Lean transformations, why people don’t resist change itself but fear things getting worse, and how engaging employees early leads to more sustainable improvement.

Along the way, they connect lessons from Olympic controversies, construction megaprojects, coffee brewing methods, and even Starbucks stir sticks to core Lean ideas about customer value and “jobs to be done.”

A thoughtful, wide-ranging conversation about leadership, measurement, culture, and curiosity.

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In this episode, Mark Graban and Jamie Flinchbaugh respond to listener questions about system design, leadership behavior, and navigating misguided Lean requirements.

They explore why some systems—like college football playoffs or improvement quotas—fail to deliver their intended results, and what leaders can do instead. Topics include cultivating psychological safety in higher education, getting Lean started when the broader organization isn’t supportive, and how to redirect “check-the-box” improvement mandates into something more meaningful.

Along the way, they also cover fresh coffee beans, local roasters, AI-generated music playlists, and a low-key holiday performance by Brandi Carlile—because culture matters too.