Charlie Bolden and Victor Glover come together for a rare, cross-generational conversation that explores legacy, representation, and the human side of space exploration.

From growing up in segregated America to preparing for a historic mission around the Moon, their stories reveal what it truly takes to step into the unknown.

Bolden reflects on his journey from a childhood shaped by limited representation to becoming one of NASA’s first Black astronauts and later Administrator.

Glover, set to become the first Black astronaut to orbit the Moon on Artemis II, shares how curiosity, resilience, and unexpected moments shaped his path into spaceflight. Together, they highlight the importance of mentorship, visibility, and perseverance in building the future of space exploration.

This conversation explores identity, adversity, leadership, and the responsibility of representing humanity when leaving Earth.

In this episode you’ll discover:

• How Charlie Bolden overcame systemic barriers to become a trailblazer in human spaceflight.

• Why Victor Glover sees resilience, teamwork, and lifelong learning as essential traits for future astronauts.

• The role of representation in shaping ambition and why seeing someone like you in space can change everything.

• Behind-the-scenes stories of being selected as an astronaut and what those life-changing moments really felt like.

• How the NASA Space Shuttle programme expanded access to space beyond test pilots.

• The mindset required to navigate adversity, from discrimination to high-stakes decision making in elite environments.

• Why astronauts ultimately represent all of humanity, not just their country, when they leave Earth.

Quote:

“You don’t have to be number one. But you do have to know you’ve done the absolute best you can do.” — Charlie Bolden

00:00 Charlie Bolden's early life

06:08 Early inspirations and Naval Academy dreams

09:10 Encouragement to apply to NASA

11:33 Childhood adventures and exploration

15:49 How Shuttle opened space travel

17:05 Encouraging diversity in astronaut office

21:51 Getting the astronaut call

28:30 Struggling through Naval Academy life

31:42 Growing up

36:22 Visiting and speaking with troops

40:22 Importance of resilience and growth

41:26 Life lessons beyond the classroom

Executive Producer Toby Goodman Edited by Leo Hornak with Sound design by Lee Turner for Inter Astra, The Bolden Group and Kathy Sullivan

Recorded in 2023 the 3x Shuttle Astronaut, First American woman to walk in space and Fmr. NOAA Administrator Dr Kathy Sullivan spoke with NASA Astronaut Christina Koch soon to be the first woman to orbit the Moon on Artemis 2, for a one-of-a-kind conversation spanning generations.

Together, they explored the evolution of space exploration: contrasting their moments of selection, training, early inspirations, and the ongoing journey toward greater diversity in the astronaut corps.

From reflections on those historic "one small step" days to the excitement and uncertainties surrounding humanity’s return to deep space.

With personal stories and practical wisdom you'll hear about what has changed, and what hasn’t, for women and underrepresented voices in space.

Sullivan and Koch discuss the skills and mindsets future explorers will need, and unpack how Artemis astronauts are laying the foundation for a new era of human spaceflight.

Whether you dream of spacewalks, or are simply fascinated by the people making the cosmos a little more accessible, this episode sets the stage for an inspiring season ahead.

• Episode produced by Toby Goodman for Inter Astra, The Charles F Bolden Group and Dr Kathy Sullivan.

00:00 Processing life-changing news

05:36 Training cycles and international missions

09:06 Pursuing passions over checklists

12:34 Passion for exploring Antarctica

13:15 Starting the astronaut interview process

18:53 Pursuing challenges and supporting others

21:20 Preparing for Artemis missions

23:37 Joining a seasoned mission team

28:12 Family involvement in space missions

30:20 Team meetings and collaboration

33:28 Testing Artemis mission docking systems

38:22 The rise of commercial spaceflight

40:09 Commercial lunar missions and NASA's role

45:03 Expanding global astronaut representation

48:41 The importance of the Artemis Accords

51:33 NASA's new spacewalking suit

53:24 Christina Koch and Artemis 2

Charles Frank Bolden Jr. is a retired US Marine Corps Major General and former NASA astronaut. After flying on four space shuttle missions—STS-61-C, STS-31, STS-45, and STS-60—Charlie was appointed by former President, Barack Obama, to serve as the 12th Administrator of NASA from 2009 to 2017, making him the first African American to head the agency permanently. Today, Charlie is the Founder and CEO Emeritus of the Charles F. Bolden Group, a consortium of accomplished leaders founded in 2017 to foster international collaboration in making life better for all humanity.

Charlie joins me today to discuss the qualities aspiring astronauts need to cultivate to be chosen for modern space programs. You’ll hear about his career at NASA and the characteristics he thinks made him a NASA astronaut. He explores how the dawn of the new space age may change selection preferences for would-be astronauts. You’ll also learn the value of being a team player and why being a jack-of-all-trades is essential to becoming an astronaut of today and tomorrow.

This week on Kathy Sullivan Explores:

● Qualities and characteristics NASA looked for in astronaut candidates in the 1980s

● Civil rights in the 1980s and the psychological implications of growing up in the segregated South

● Why being a team player is a high-value trait for NASA astronauts

● Diversity as a trait of a high-performing organization

● Why being a good fighter pilot doesn’t necessarily mean being a great astronaut

● The lack of diversity in NASA’s Apollo era and how astronaut selection preferences have changed since

● How the dawn of commercial spaceflight is changing preferences for would-be astronauts

● How commercial spacecraft may change the employment prospects of future astronauts

● The kind of crew NASA may seek for the Artemis program and beyond

● Jessica Watkins, Kate Rubins, Peggy Whitson, and why researchers may be the astronauts of the future

● Ridley Scott’s The Martian and what it takes to be a modern-day astronaut

Resources Mentioned:

● Book: Riding Rockets: The Outrageous Tales of a Space Shuttle Astronaut by Mike Mullane

Our Favorite Quotes:

● “A great test pilot isn’t necessarily going to be a great astronaut; a great test pilot with a big ego is going to be a lousy astronaut.” - Charlie Bolden

● “The astronauts of today and tomorrow are not going to have the opportunity to train over and over again on something because they’ll find that every day is something new.” - Charlie Bolden

Connect with Charlie Bolden:

• Inter Astra

•

Charles F. Bolden Jr. is the Founder and CEO Emeritus of the Charles F. Bolden Group, a consortium of accomplished leaders founded in 2017 to foster international collaboration in making life better for all humanity. Appointed by the former president, Barack Obama, Charlie served as the 12th Administrator of NASA from 2009 to 2017, making him the first African American to hold the position permanently. Charlie is a retired U.S. Marine Corps Major General and former astronaut who has flown on four Space Shuttle missions.

Charlie speaks with Kathy about his perspective on NASA’s transition from space shuttle operations to commercial space flight. You’ll gain insight into the real inside workings of Washington, DC, as well as his journey to becoming the 12th Administrator of NASA. Charlie also discusses what the future holds for space commerce and exploration, and the surprising who he'd like to take to space.

“OUR PURPOSE IS TO MAKE THE EARTH A BETTER, MORE SUSTAINABLE PLACE. I THINK WE’RE UP TO THE CHALLENGE.”

- CHARLIE BOLDEN

This week on Kathy Sullivan Explores:

• Charlie’s last shuttle flight and the formation of the new space age

• NASA’s state of play and Charlie’s road to Washington DC

• His first experience with the National Space Council

• The time Charlie had to convince the Congressional Black Caucus of the need for a space station

• What working with Russian cosmonauts taught Charlie

• My experience interacting with Soviet astronauts and cosmonauts

• Charlie’s meeting with the former president, Barack Obama, and his nomination to NASA

• The birth of the SLS, Orion, and commercial crew and cargo

• Why NASA will remain the leader and catalyst for discovery

• The advantages of developing a vibrant commercial space sector

• The James Webb Space Telescope and what gives Charlie hope for the future

Our Favorite Quotes:

“EVERY CREW BECOMES A FAMILY.”

- CHARLIE BOLDEN

“STUDY HARD, WORK HARD, AND NEVER BE AFRAID OF FAILURE. LISTEN RESPECTFULLY TO YOUR PARENTS, BUT FOLLOW YOUR PASSION BECAUSE IT’S YOUR LIFE.”

- CHARLIE BOLDEN

Connect with Charlie Bolden:

• Inter Astra

• Inter Astra on LinkedIn

• The Charles F. Bolden Group

• The Charles F. Bolden Group on LinkedIn

• The Charles F. Bolden Group on YouTube

• Charlie Bolden on LinkedIn

Credits:

Executive Producer: Toby Goodman

Audio & Sound Design: Lee Turner

Production by CxS Partners LTD

I’m Kathy Sullivan, the only person to have walked in space and gone to the deepest point in the ocean.

I’m an explorer, and that doesn’t always have to involve going to some remote or exotic place. It simply requires a commitment to put curiosity into action.

In this podcast, you can explore, reflecting on lessons learned from life so far and from my brilliant and ever-inquisitive guests. We explore together in this very moment from right where you are… spaceship not required.

Welcome to Kathy Sullivan Explores.

Charles Frank Bolden Jr. formerly served as the 12th Administrator of NASA from 2009 to 2017. He was the first African American to head the agency permanently. In addition to being a retired U.S. Marine Corps Major General, Charlie is a former astronaut who has flown on four Space Shuttle missions. He is the Founder and CEO Emeritus of the Charles F. Bolden Group, a consortium of accomplished leaders founded in 2017 to foster international collaboration in making life better for all humanity.

Charlie joins us today to describe what it was like growing up in the segregated South. He shares his experience as one of the first African Americans to attend the Naval Academy. You’ll learn how he became a pilot in the Marine Corps despite hating flying in his youth. He also shares his observations on the leadership culture of NASA and underscores the characteristics astronauts have in common.

This week on Kathy Sullivan Explores:

● What it was like growing up in segregated South Carolina in the ‘60s

● Charlie’s experiences with the Naval Academy

● Why Charlie used to avoid flying airplanes

● What eventually led Charlie to the Marine Corps during his plebe year at the Naval Academy

● Finding his way to flight school and aviation

● Charlie’s perceptions of NASA’s culture and leadership when he arrived at the Astronaut Corps

● Bringing Apollo-era astronauts to the 20th century and making NASA a welcoming place for women and people of color

Our Favorite Quotes:

Connect with Charlie Bolden:

• Inter Astra

• Inter Astra on LinkedIn

• The Charles F. Bolden Group

• The Charles F. Bolden Group on LinkedIn

• The Charles F. Bolden Group on YouTube

• Charlie Bolden on LinkedIn

Credits:

Executive Producer: Toby Goodman

Audio & Sound Design: Lee Turner

Production by CxS Partners LTD

I’m Kathy Sullivan, the only person to have walked in space and gone to the deepest point in the ocean.

I’m an explorer, and that doesn’t always have to involve going to some remote or exotic place. It simply requires a commitment to put curiosity into action.

In this podcast, you can explore, reflecting on lessons learned from life so far and from my brilliant and ever-inquisitive guests. We explore together in this very moment from right where you are… spaceship not required.

Welcome to Kathy Sullivan Explores.

Bill Nye “the Science Guy” is an American science educator, engineer, comedian, television presenter, author, and inventor with a mission to help foster a scientifically literate society and to help people everywhere understand and appreciate the science that makes our world work. Making science entertaining and accessible is something Bill has been passionate about his entire life. Bill is a seven time Emmy Award winner and was involved in placing the first sundial on Mars.

Today, Bill joins me to share his story. We talk about the young Bill Nye and the people and events that acted as his greatest influences. He talks about his experience doing stand-up and his life during the war in Vietnam. He discusses the different categories of science and the importance of its advancement. He discusses the role of Congress in this advancement and offers his solutions for political problems. He discusses the exploration of Europa and fields a series of rapid-fire questions.

“BY THE TIME SOMEBODY’S EIGHT YEARS OLD, HIS OR HER ABILITY TO REASON IS PRETTY GOOD. IT’S THE LIFE EXPERIENCE THAT YOU’RE MISSING.”

-

“BRAVERY IS WHEN YOU’VE ACTUALLY ASSESSED THE DANGER.”

- BILL NYE

This week on Kathy Sullivan Explores:

• Bill Nye and the sundial on Mars
• Bill’s experience as an engineer
• The role of dancing in Bill’s life
• Political discussion
• The importance of the advancement of science

Mentioned Resources:

• The Planetary Society
• The Science Rules Podcast

Credits:

Inter Astra

Executive Producer: Toby Goodman

Audio & Sound Design: Lee Turner

Artwork: Ryan Field

Production by CxS Partners LTD

First published - June 10th, 2021

My guest on this episode is Zolana Joao, a distinguished engineer and dynamic leader from the Angola National Space Program Management Office.

In this episode, we explore Zolana’s profound journey from his challenging early years in war-torn Angola to his instrumental role in advancing Angola’s aspirations in space exploration.

With his deep commitment to education and his strategic vision, Zolana has been a driving force in launching Angola’s first satellites, significantly impacting his country’s development and representation in the global space community.

This episode was recorded at the Inter Astra Retreat just outside Washington DC last November (2023).

In this episode, you’ll discover:

• From Civil War to Space Pioneer: Zolana’s journey through adversity to space leadership.

• Strategic Mind in Angola’s Space Ascent: His pivotal role in launching Angola’s satellites.

• Lessons from Global Space Partnerships: How international collaborations shaped his strategy.

• Advocating for Future Innovators: Zolana’s efforts to inspire the next generation in Angola.

• Leadership Philosophy: Insights into overcoming obstacles in space sector leadership.

Quote:

"I didn’t know that I was building muscle. Then after 9 months, I start applying for jobs in electrical engineering jobs. And I found, Motorola company. That time, Motorola was already in Angola, and they were hiring technicians. But I was scared because I was 17. I was not allowed officially to work yet. But I said, I have to gotta do something."

- Zolana Joao

Episode Links:

• Follow Inter Astra on LinkedIn
• Discover more about Inter Astra
• Connect with Zolana on LinkedIn

Credits:

Production by CxS Partners LTD

Executive Producer: Toby Goodman

Audio & Sound Design: Lee Turner

Artwork: Ryan Field

Recorded on location on Nomono Sound Capsule

Explore more episodes at Kathy Sullivan Explores... https://kathysullivaneexplores.com/

Find even more podcasts on the Inter Astra Podcast Network HERE

I’m Kathy Sullivan, the only person to have walked in space and gone to the deepest point in the ocean.

I’m an explorer, and that doesn’t always have to involve going to some remote or exotic place. It simply requires a commitment to put curiosity into action.

In this podcast, you can explore, reflecting on lessons learned from life so far and from my brilliant and ever-inquisitive guests. We explore together in this very moment from right where you are… spaceship not required.

Welcome to Kathy Sullivan Explores.

This episode was recorded at the Inter Astra Retreat just outside Washington DC last November (2023). I sat down with Stella Marcy, a high school freshman from upstate New York with big dreams of becoming an astrobiologist.

Stella’s passion for exploring the origins of life on other planets and her curiosity about the universe is truly inspiring. In our conversation, we discussed what it means to be an astrobiologist, the tools scientists use to search for life beyond Earth, and how high school student Stella can prepare for her career.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

• What astrobiologists do.

• The importance of STEM education in pursuing a career in space science.

• How young students can get involved in STEM programs and research opportunities.

• Stella’s inspirations and her goals for the future, including her dream universities.

• Insights from the Inter Astra Retreat.

Quote:

"INTER ASTRA IS A GREAT WAY TO MAKE CONNECTIONS, TO GET INTERNSHIPS OR RESEARCH PROJECTS OR MENTORS WHO ALSO WOULD REALLY HELP ME."

- STELLA MARCY

Episode Links:

• Follow Inter Astra on LinkedIn
• Discover more about Inter Astra

Credits:

Production by CxS Partners LTD

Executive Producer: Toby Goodman

Audio & Sound Design: Lee Turner

Artwork: Ryan Field

Recorded on location on Nomono Sound Capsule

Explore more episodes at Kathy Sullivan Explores... https://kathysullivaneexplores.com/

Find even more podcasts on the Inter Astra Podcast Network HERE

SPACESHIP NOT REQUIRED

I’m Kathy Sullivan, the only person to have walked in space and gone to the deepest point in the ocean.

I’m an explorer, and that doesn’t always have to involve going to some remote or exotic place. It simply requires a commitment to put curiosity into action.

In this podcast, you can explore, reflecting on lessons learned from life so far and from my brilliant and ever-inquisitive guests. We explore together in this very moment from right where you are… spaceship not required.

Welcome to Kathy Sullivan Explores.