Karen is a tech journalist and leads the Pulitzer Center’s AI Spotlight Series — a program that trains journalists on how to cover AI. She was a senior editor for AI at MIT Technology Review and a reporter for the WSJ covering Chinese and US tech companies. Her first book is Empire of AI: Dreams and Nightmares in Sam Altman’s OpenAI — the most accessible and readable narrative of the rise of AI.

For two clips of our convo — on the environmental impact of AI, and its threats to democracy — head to our YouTube page.

Other topics: raised by two computer scientists; her mechanical engineering at MIT; the birth of AI at Dartmouth; IBM Watson on Jeopardy!; how the internet made data cheap to collect; the junk info swept into AI; massive data centers; ideology driving the AI industry more than science; ChatGPT; the networking and fundraising skills of Sam Altman; his family scandal; his near ouster at OpenAI; the AI bubble and propping up 401(k)s; the threat to white-collar jobs; the brutal conditions of AI work in developing countries; Chinese authoritarianism and DeepSeek; the illiberalizing effect of Silicon Valley; Musk and Thiel; how the IDF uses AI against Hamas; autonomous weapons; how AI has done wonders with Pharma; transhumanism; chatbot safety for kids; Pope Leo’s tech warnings; and AI as the ultimate apple in the Garden of Eden.

Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy. Coming up: David Ignatius on the Trump effect globally, Mark Halperin on the domestic front, Michel Paradis on Eisenhower, Fiona Hill on Putin’s war, and Arthur Brooks on the science of happiness. As always, please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.