Grief and joy are not opposites.

In this episode, I’m joined by Allen Klein — known as “The Jollytologist” — for a deeply human conversation about loss, resilience, and the surprising role humor can play in hard seasons of life.

After his wife’s three-year battle with a rare liver disease, Allen found himself navigating profound grief while raising their 10-year-old daughter. In the midst of hospital rooms and uncertainty, something unexpected kept showing up: laughter.

We talk about:

• The hospital moment that reshaped his understanding of grief
• Why humor can be healing — even in hospice
• Getting kicked out of Yale Drama School (and why it turned out to be a gift)
• The power of play, perspective, and choosing how we respond

Allen’s life and work are now the subject of a new documentary, The Jollytologist, directed by Sky Bergman. In our next episode, I’ll be speaking with Sky about the making of the film and why this story feels especially relevant right now.

There will also be an upcoming online screening before the film heads to festivals — I’ll be sharing details as soon as registration opens.

This isn’t a conversation about pretending everything is fine.

It’s about holding sorrow and joy at the same time — and discovering that sometimes laughter isn’t denial… it’s relief.

If you’re navigating loss, transition, or simply wondering how to stay open and playful in a complicated world, I hope this episode brings you comfort.