In this episode of The IJK Podcast, I’m joined by Jonathan Pageau — liturgical artist, iconographer, and creator of The Symbolic World — for a deep but accessible conversation on symbolism and meaning in modern times.

We live in an age that feels rational, data-driven, and “post-myth,” yet symbols continue to shape how we think, what we value, and what we treat as ultimate. Jonathan explains how symbolism works, why humans can’t escape meaning, and what happens when societies lose a shared symbolic framework.

We also explore how modern culture expresses its hunger for meaning through stories, identity, technology, and even AI — and how we can begin to reconnect with meaning in everyday life. Topics we cover:

• What symbolism really is (beyond metaphors)
• Why meaning can’t be reduced to “facts” or utility
• The modern “meaning crisis” and cultural fragmentation
• Pop culture and myth in the digital age
• Technology, AI, and “Babel” as a modern pattern
• Practical ways to re-orient toward meaning

To know more about Jonathan's work check: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/

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