The Animal Liberation Front is a fascinating study. The leaderless, amorphous group of mostly young people carrying out raids on laboratories and fur farms, rescuing animals and inflicting economic sabotage, was most active in the 80's and 90's. It's incredible to learn how desperately intense the struggle for animal liberation was since before I was even born. Around 50 years since it was formed, the founder of the ALF, Ronnie Lee, is still fighting for animals. And it was such a joy to speak with him.Ronnie comes across to me as incredibly gregarious, generous and thoughtful. I learned a huge amount from Jon Hochschartner's biography of Ronnie, and what stood out to me the most was his bravery and initiative. Ronnie wasn't waiting around for anyone to organize for the animals, he did it himself. And it was that DIY ethos that was the ALF. Ronnie paid the price of his struggle with 3 prison stints, but he has never let that stop him. Even as others have come and gone through the movement for the animals, Ronnie has stayed on. It was really fascinating to hear Ronnie recount some of those notable moments, and I hope you enjoy this interview as much as I did.This conversation is also available on YouTube.Links:Ronnie's FBRonnie's biography"The Animals Film"Ronnie's band Total Attack"Shake Some Action"Watch DominionWatch Earthlings

In a major development, Condé Nast announced they were no longer going to promote new fur in any of their publications, which includes Vogue Magazine. This came after a nearly year long campaign by the Coalition to Abolish the Fur Trade (CAFT). It could be a major turning point in the culture of fashion and another nail in the coffin of the fur industry.When news of this broke, I reached out to Lauren at CAFT to invite her on the podcast. Lauren and CAFT have been great partners over the last few years to myself and other groups I've been involved with. Something really beautiful has been happening lately in the animal rights movement. A movement that unfortunately is often beset by great divisons, there have been recent sparks of collaboration. One partnership has been especially fruitful: the one between CAFT and Animal Activism Collective, who have teamed up to boost each other's campaigns, and in so doing, scoring dramatic wins against the fur industry. That in turn has sparked collaborations with other groups, notably the International Council for Animal Welfare (ICAW). These collaborations are animal exploitation industry's worst nightmare. When we work together, there is nothing we cannot achieve.Fur is no longer in Vogue. It's because of activists like Lauren and the hundreds of others who took part. Next up: Berluti.

This conversation is also available on YouTube.

Links:

CAFT websiteCAFT newsletterCAFT IGCAFT YouTubeAAC LinktreeAAC YouTubeICAWWatch EarthlingsWatch Dominion

It was only recently that I even learned who Gail Eisnitz is. But I had known about her work for years. As the chief investigator at Humane Farming Association, Gail's investigations over more than four decades have been some of the most consequential for animals, leading to changes in law, closing factory farms, and garnering worldwide media attention. Her new memoir, "Out of Sight: An Undercover Investigator’s Fight for Animal Rights & Her Own Survival" takes us behind those investigations, revealing the incredible struggles she had to endure to shine a light in some of the darkest places on earth.And as difficult as it is to investigate a slaughterhouse or factory farm, as difficult as it is get a recalcitrant media to care, as difficult as it is to work in conditions where your own boss is trying to stop you, it was Gail's persistent and undiagnosed health problems that are the drive of this book. We learn how Gail cannot see the world the way most people do. She sees the world in dots. She would become disoriented, overwhelmed and sick, all while visiting places that would disorient, overwhelm and sicken anyone who goes in them. This is a condition doctors couldn't understand. We eventually learn what it is, but we learn it only several years after Gail does, and so she spent her life wondering if she was crazy, or doing it to herself. I find it truly extraordinary that Gail persevered through this to do these harrowing investigations, some documented in her first book "Slaughterhouse" and others that find account now in her memoir. Gail is a true hero to the animals and it was an honor to have her on the podcast.This conversation is also available on YouTube.Links:Gail's website"Out of Sight""Slaughterhouse"Gail's IGGail's FBHumane Farming AssociationHFA IGHFA FBHFA YouTubeSuwanna Ranch"Death on a Factory Farm"Watch DominionWatch Earthlings

Andy Stepanian is best known as a member of the SHAC 7. The Stop Huntingdon Animal Cruelty campaign against the contract animal testing laboratory then called Huntingdon Life Sciences began in the UK, before spreading to the US, where Andy became involved. The hugely successful tactics were ultimately cracked down on by both governments leading to draconian arrests and sentencing of those involved. That included, in America, the SHAC 7. Andy would serve 3 years in prison for his role, including time in a top-secret maximum security prison.I realize a 3 hour interview is hard to digest in our busy world. I didn't anticipate it going that long. But the interview surprised me in how much I learned that I didn't know about Andy. We talked about SHAC, the Animal Liberation Front, Andy's time in what's called a Communications Management Unit, a secretive and controversial "prison within a prison" as Andy described it, alongside Earth Liberation Front prisoner Daniel McGowan. Those things I knew about, but many details I didn't. We also talk about Gaza and how that issue has roiled the animal rights movement. We talk about his past trauma and abuse, his PTSD of being there as Heather Heyer was run over by a white supremacist in Charlottesville, Virginia. I had considered breaking this interview into multiple parts, or adding timestamps. I decided I'm not going to do that, even though it may ultimately doom this interview to low views. For that, I'm sorry to Andy. But I think too much of this conversation was informed by the other parts, that I don't want it broken up. I'd rather it be understood in full.I have enormous gratitude for Andy's time and for all he has done for animals. I got a lot from this conversation, and hope you do too.This conversation is also available on YouTube.Links:Andy's IG"The Animal People" trailer"If a Tree Falls"Tom Harris' bookMy interview with Tom"Green is the New Red"Prisoner support: Anarchist Black Cross

Books Through BarsWatch DominionWatch Earthlings

Calvin Tasker came onto my radar fairly recently. It was a video from Mel and Steve's channel. They teamed up with long-time investigator Chris Hines to take his brother Colin, who was at that point not even vegan, in the dark of night onto a pig farm. That story was compelling enough that I interviewed all of them. But there was another member of that team, and it was Calvin. And after seeing him there, I started to notice him more and more in the vicinity of well known activists like Joey Carbstrong and Jamie Logan.Calvin gets more impressive the more you know about him. Not only does he courageously go into the dark shadows that only a select few dare to, but he takes from there hard-hitting photographs that linger in your mind long after seeing them. Following the formula from when I asked animal photojournalist Jo-Anne McArthur to select photographs for us to pore over, I asked Calvin to do the same. The result is a fascinating look at images that endure for their personal intimacy, their beauty and heartbreak, and the stark, grotesque reality facing animals 24/7. I remember reading a simple but gutting quote once from PETA co-founder Ingrid Newkirk, something along the lines of "we are trying really hard to make the world wake up." I'm convinced that if more people saw images like the ones Calvin has captured and shared here, the world would wake up. I hope that, as small as my channel is, at least a few more people will see them than would have otherwise.This conversation is also available on YouTube.Links:Calvin's IGMultitaskers IGMultitaskers YouTubeMultitaskters FBMel and Steve podcast episodeWatch DominionWatch Earthlings

Rod Coronado's story is one of the wildest I've ever read. As a prominent member of the Animal Liberation Front, Sea Shepherd and the Hunt Saboteurs, he saved thousands of animals and embarked on a campaign against animal exploitation industries that had massive ripple effects. One of his earliest actions was to sink two docked whaling ships in Iceland. That's quite a way to start your activism career. Rod ended up doing around 6 years in prison after a campaign against the fur industry and research laboratories. His incredible story is documented in the book "Operation Bite Back" by Dean Kuipers, through his own words in "Flaming Arrows" and a memoir just about to release called "Memories of Freedom." Releasing this interview on 9/11 seemed strangly poignant, as the government hunted Rod Coronado in a way you would a violent criminal. And indeed, Rod and other radical animal and environmental activists have been deemed "eco-terrorists" many times before, but though Rod engaged in property destruction, he did it to rescue lives, not take them. I thoroughly enjoyed getting to speak with Rod Coronado. Beyond his story, we touch on topics like veganism and infighting in the animal rights movement. I think it's a shame that more younger activists may not be aware of Rod's incredible struggle for animals and I hope this interview at least shares it a little further.This conversation is also available on YouTube.Links:Operation Wolf Patrol documentary"Flaming Arrows" book"Operation Bite Back" book"Memories of Freedom" bookVermont Wildlife Patrol FBTeam Wolf Patrol FBWatch EarthlingsWatch Dominion

To be honest, I wasn't that excited to interview Gary Yourofsky. Yes, I admire his advocacy for animals. Yes, I recommend his speech. Yes, I think he is a hero for the animals. Yet...I wasn't stoked. And no, it's not for the reason you think. It's not because of Gary's various controversial statements. It's not because of his views on politics or war. No offense to Gary or any other animal activist, I care about as much about his views on the Middle East as I do about his favorite color. I care about his views on what he's an expert on, animal rights and animal liberation. And Gary knows a lot about it. So why wasn't I revved up?It's because I didn't think I had anything to offer to the conversation. Gary has come back after a years-long hiatus from public advocacy. He was basically out of the spotlight by the time I even went vegan. Since coming back several months back, he's done dozens and dozens of interviews. What could I possibly add to this?Well, I was wrong to think about it this way. I'm going to try to explain why. In texting with Gary and then the few moments we spoke before recording, I don't think I've ever been more at ease in a conversation. Usually there's at least a small moment of familiarization that's needed for a genuine, authentic conversation. Not so with Gary. There is no filter. It doesn't matter what I bring. Or Gary, for that matter. Only so much as Gary is a mouthpiece for the animals. And if I was an animal, I would want someone speaking EXACTLY like Gary Yourofsky. And talking with Gary even briefly, I could see this was going to be easy. I felt like I was talking to an old friend before we even started. So by the time we started recording, I was pretty pumped. So did I clickbait you into reading this? Guilty. Gary is a wrecking ball, a force of nature. You may not agree with him on everything, or like or respect him. That's your right. But if you want to question his effectiveness or dedication, you might direct your questions to Sasha Farm sanctuary, or to the animals he helps care for there or to the animals whose cages he opened. I hope you can overlook the messy signal. We did our best. Just like my conversation with John Curtin of Camp Beagle, some of these old school activists are the amazing people they are exactly because they are so uninterested in things like that, so unpolished. I love it. Despite all of this, I honestly feel this is one of the most beautiful and surprising interviews I've ever conducted, exactly because it was so natural.This conversation is also available on YouTube.Links:Donate to SashaBest Speech You'll Ever HearGary's IGADAPTTWatch EarthlingsWatch Dominion

You've probably seen Jo-Anne McArthur's photography, whether you knew it or not. And if you haven't seen any of her thousands of iconic images, you've probably seen some from her many collaborators at the non-profit We Animals that she founded. Jo-Anne is simply one of the most talented and driven photojournalists working today.Shortly before our interview, I asked Jo-Anne to send me some images that stood out to her that we could analyze on the program. Not surprisingly, I had already been well-acquainted with several of them. One, in fact, was the leading image of one of the proudest recent stories facilitated by the Direct Action Everywhere press team, a feature piece about open rescue in National Geographic.To meet Jo-Anne is a treat. To be able to comb through some of the extraordinary images with her and hear the stories behind the images is something else entirely. I'm incredibly grateful to Jo-Anne for the generosity of her time and her amazing work that is changing the world for animals.This conversation is also available on YouTube and may be a more rewarding experience to be able to see her photographs.Links:We AnimalsDonate to We Animals"The Ghosts in Our Machine"Jo-Anne's websiteHer booksHer IGHer FBWe Animals IGFBBlueskyNational Geographic open rescue pieceWatch DominionWatch Earthlings