Doug and co-host Daniel Goulding sit down with Andy Cook, Executive Director of the Wheaton College Billy Graham Center, to unpack why relational evangelism belongs at the center of discipleship. Together they explore sobering stats (60% of U.S. churches are stagnant or declining), Gen Z’s surprising openness to spiritual conversations, and the practical rhythms leaders can model—from Alpha tables to breakfast-booth friendships.

Daniel shares church-plant lessons around decisions and baptisms, while Andy unpacks BGC research, revitalization cohorts, and the vision behind the Amplify Conference. Along the way, they wrestle with transfer growth vs. true conversion, the seeker-sensitive debate, preaching clearly into cultural issues, and how “radical alignment” mobilizes everyday believers. The conversation is actionable, hopeful, and data-informed.

New to Intentional Churches? Start here:
https://intentionalchurches.com/radical-alignment

CHAPTERS:
00:00 The Sobering Statistic: 60% of Churches in Decline or Stagnant
01:03 Meet Co-Host Daniel Goulding and His Church Plant Story
01:21 Andy Cook’s Journey: From Willow Creek to Wheaton College
03:28 Daniel’s Radical Conversion: From Fraternity Life to Faith
06:43 Early Lessons in Relational Evangelism
08:03 Inviting Friends, Broken Hearts, and the “Lonely Bench” at Willow
10:33 Why Evangelism Must Begin with Leaders
13:32 Everyday Evangelism: Breakfast Tables and Baptism Stories
15:02 Making Evangelism a Regular Appointment on the Calendar
16:56 Why Andy Leads Alpha and Steps Outside the Christian Bubble
17:13 Inside the Billy Graham Center and Its Institutes
20:30 State of Evangelism in America Today
23:15 Transfer Growth vs. True Kingdom Growth
24:48 Why Evangelism Feels Scary—and Why It’s Still Biblical
26:20 Bad Evangelism vs. Good Evangelism: Learning Like Toddlers
28:56 Discipleship and Evangelism: Two Sides of the Same Coin
30:40 Can You Have Deep Discipleship Without Evangelism?

32:23 Gen Z’s Spiritual Openness and New Research Insights
34:46 Preaching Boldly into Cultural Issues
36:58 Calling Men to Biblical Masculinity
37:50 Convening Evangelism Leaders at the Billy Graham Center
39:18 Digital Spaces, AI, and the Future of Evangelism
40:18 The Amplify Conference: Keeping Evangelism Central
40:56 The Radical Alignment Assessment and New Data

Website: https://intentionalchurches.com
The Book: https://a.co/d/hFlz17C
The Blog: https://intentionalchurches.com/blog/
YouTube: www.youtube.com/@IntentionalChurches
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Join the conversation and let us know how you are leading your church toward the Great Commission!

David Ashcraft joins Doug and co-host Daniel Goulding on this episode of the Intentional Churches Podcast, sharing lessons from decades of leadership at LCBC in Pennsylvania.

From painful early years where elders walked out, to the explosive growth that brought thousands of people across multiple campuses, David unpacks how radical alignment and a relentless focus on “best vs. good” shaped a disciple-making movement.

During their conversation, you’ll hear why alignment matters more than keeping everyone happy, how LCBC codified its culture without losing passion, and what the 90–10 rule teaches us about the need for some people to be upset if you’re truly moving forward. David also unpacks how to discern between “good” opportunities and the “best” mission, and he shares honestly about the personal cost leaders pay to remain faithful through seasons of growth.

New to Intentional Churches? Start here:
https://intentionalchurches.com/radical-alignment

CHAPTERS:
00:00 When Elders Walk Out: The Pain of Early Leadership
01:10 Meet Co-Host Daniel Goulding and His Church Plant Story
02:44 David Ashcraft’s Journey: From Texas to Pennsylvania
04:48 Facing Opposition: Letters from Abe and the Worship Wars
07:11 LCBC’s Growth: From 150 to 25,000 Across 25 Campuses
08:23 The Core Issue: Alignment vs. Misalignment in the Church
09:40 Good vs. Best: The Principle that Guides Every Decision
11:19 Lessons from Rapid Growth and Staff Alignment Challenges
14:00 Codifying Culture: From Intuition to Intentionality
16:33 Multi-Site Expansion and Why Limitations Became Opportunities
18:52 Stewardship, Buildings, and Keeping the Mission Central
22:12 Guarding Staff Culture While Scaling Fast
25:56 The 90–10 Rule: Leading with Clarity, Not Popularity
29:20 Picking Battles Carefully Without Losing Alignment
33:52 Codifying the “Gut”: Axioms and Culture Statements
39:02 Encouragement for Leaders in Shrinking or Struggling Churches
43:25 The Real Cost of Growth and Leadership Pain
45:25 Why David Stepped Into The Advantage and Global Leadership Network
47:17 Final Wisdom: Lead, Don’t Chase Popularity

Website: https://intentionalchurches.com
The Book: https://a.co/d/hFlz17C
The Blog: https://intentionalchurches.com/blog/
YouTube: www.youtube.com/@IntentionalChurches
Facebook: https://facebook.com/intentionalchurches
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/intentional-churches/mycompany/
Instagram: https://instagram.com/IntentionalChurches
X/Twitter: https://x.com/intentchurches

Join the conversation and let us know how you are leading your church toward the Great Commission!

Pastor Ben Ellefritz joins Doug for today’s episode of The Intentional Churches podcast, exploring what church growth, rural revitalization, and alignment around disciple making look like in real life. As Executive Pastor at The Crossing Church, Ben leads in a context where no town has more than 80,000 people—and some have as few as 125. Despite this, The Crossing is thriving across 12 campuses, reaching thousands each weekend.

During their conversation, you'll hear how their church realigned its multi-site strategy after discovering their previous launch model lacked commitment and sustainability. Their 12th campus launch—built entirely on pre-launch engagement, giving, and disciple-making—became their first financially self-sustaining plant from day one.

Ben also unpacks the intentional language around “Difference Makers” (not volunteers), their high expectations for both staff and lay leaders, and how they use visible scoreboards and discipleship pathways to drive alignment around the Great Commission. This conversation is a must-listen for church leaders in rural, suburban, or multi-site contexts who want to strengthen alignment, empower their people, and move from programming to pastoring.

New to Intentional Churches? Start here:
https://intentionalchurches.com/radical-alignment

CHAPTERS:
00:00 Redefining Church Strategy in a Shifting Culture
01:45 Meet Ben Ellefritz and The Crossing Church
04:07 From Principal to Pastor: Leadership Lessons
07:35 Revitalizing Rural Churches through Campus Acquisition
09:59 Why They Changed Their Church Planting Strategy
12:53 Defining “Difference Makers” Instead of Volunteers
14:52 Staff Gaps and the Future of Lay Leadership
16:11 Rebuilding Disciple Making from Baptism to Maturity
19:51 Using Scoreboards and Systems to Align Staff
22:03 Training Staff to Pastor, Not Just Program
23:54 What Hasn’t Worked: Lessons from Failure

Website: https://intentionalchurches.com
The Book: https://a.co/d/hFlz17C
The Blog: https://intentionalchurches.com/blog/
YouTube: www.youtube.com/@IntentionalChurches
Facebook: https://facebook.com/intentionalchurches
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/intentional-churches/mycompany/
Instagram: https://instagram.com/IntentionalChurches
X/Twitter: https://x.com/intentchurches

Join the conversation and let us know how you are leading your church toward the Great Commission!

Kicking off Season 9 of Intentional Churches, Doug is joined by IC co-founder, Bart Rendel, for a behind-the-scenes look at Intentional Churches, their leadership rhythms, and the realities many pastors face today. Bart introduces “the spanking machine”—a vivid and humorous metaphor born out of ministry burnout. Together Bart and Doug explore the constant pressure church leaders face from the unrelenting pace of weekend ministry and the need to name it honestly.

The heart of the episode centers on the remarkable story of First Christian Church in Newburgh, Indiana. Once a thriving congregation, FCC faced deep decline after leadership transitions, financial hardship, and even a tornado. When the Intentional Churches team engaged with them, they found a deeply committed leadership team willing to lean in and realign around the Great Commission.

Bart and Doug close the episode by reflecting on signs of spiritual awakening across the country, highlighting churches seeing dramatic growth and salvations—not because of gimmicks, but because of alignment with Jesus’ mission. This is an episode for pastors who feel weary, discouraged, or unsure of what’s next. It’s a reminder that the spiritual moment is here—but the church must be ready.

New to Intentional Churches? Start here:
https://intentionalchurches.com/radical-alignment

CHAPTERS:
00:00 Revival Requires Two Things
01:44 Bart Hates Vacations
02:56 The Origin of “The Spanking Machine”
06:47 Courageous Leadership Stories
07:49 The Comeback of FCC Newburgh
12:06 COVID Super-Spreader Story
16:27 What’s Happening at FCC Now
19:24 Prayer, Pain, and Progress
20:40 Other Signs of Spiritual Momentum
21:52 Bart and Doug’s Random Thoughts
24:46 Are We Ready for Revival?
25:16 The Need for Great Commission Alignment

Website: https://intentionalchurches.com
The Book: https://a.co/d/hFlz17C
The Blog: https://intentionalchurches.com/blog/
YouTube: www.youtube.com/@IntentionalChurches
Facebook: https://facebook.com/intentionalchurches
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/intentional-churches/mycompany/
Instagram: https://instagram.com/IntentionalChurches
X/Twitter: https://x.com/intentchurches

Join the conversation and let us know how you are leading your church toward the Great Commission!

In this final episode of season 8, Doug sits down with Paige Peltier of Leadership Pathway to unpack what it really looks like to develop young leaders for long-term ministry impact. Paige draws on her journey through multiple ministry roles at Chapel Street Church and shares how strategic flexibility in staffing—based on a leader’s growth and God’s prompting—can dramatically impact retention and effectiveness.

Together, Doug and Paige dive into the two-year residency model at the heart of Leadership Pathway, where churches commit to hands-on, intentional development and coaching of next-gen leaders. Paige explains how Leadership Pathway partners with churches not only to recruit residents but also to equip staff with tools for leadership coaching. She also offers direct insights for church leaders wrestling with team structure, staff culture, and how to practically support the growth of Gen Z and Millennial leaders.

For any church leader wondering how to build a pipeline of future leaders and move away from the “microwave mentality” of quick hires, this conversation will provide a hopeful and highly practical blueprint.

New to Intentional Churches? Start here:
https://intentionalchurches.com/radical-alignment

CHAPTERS:
00:00 Helping People Is Slow, But Worth It
01:17 Meet Paige Peltier
03:16 Paige’s Journey at Chapel Street Church
06:28 Staff Flexibility & Finding Best Contribution
09:47 Churches Must Shift How They Develop Staff
11:11 What Leadership Pathway Really Does
14:27 Why Residencies Are So Valuable
16:15 Development Is Messy—And Mission-Critical
19:49 Gen Z Leaders: What Churches Need to Know
23:14 Advice for Older & Younger Generations
24:45 Leadership Pathway by the Numbers
26:48 What Great Churches Are Doing Right
29:00 One Next Step to Get Started Developing Leaders
31:11 Paige’s Encouragement to Church Leaders

Website: https://intentionalchurches.com
The Book: https://a.co/d/hFlz17C
The Blog: https://intentionalchurches.com/blog/
YouTube: www.youtube.com/@IntentionalChurches
Facebook: https://facebook.com/intentionalchurches
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/intentional-churches/mycompany/
Instagram: https://instagram.com/IntentionalChurches
X/Twitter: https://x.com/intentchurches

Join the conversation and let us know how you are leading your church toward the Great Commission!

Sherwood Oaks Christian Church has walked through significant change in recent years—from a leadership transition after 40 years and weathering the challenges of COVID to launching a new campus. Maggie Mobley, Executive of Ministries at Sherwood Oaks, joins Erin and Doug on today’s episode of Intentional Churches to talk about how to find clarity and alignment during seasons of disruption.

During their conversation, Maggie opens up about the courage it took to sunset beloved events that were no longer missional and how having a common language and calendaring rhythms empowered the staff to have hard, healthy conversations. Together the three also discuss developing a team culture, leading change in different campus contexts, and how Maggie helped transition the staff from skepticism to ownership of a shared vision.

Whether you’re navigating transition on your own team, evaluating programs, or trying to build trust amongst your people, this episode offers rich insights into the power of alignment and evaluation.

New to Intentional Churches? Start here:
https://intentionalchurches.com/radical-alignment

CHAPTERS:
00:00 The Cost of Legacy Programs
01:17 Meet Maggie Moberly
03:15 The Unique Context of Bloomington
06:09 Differences Between Campuses
07:06 Church History and Leadership Transitions
09:55 Deciding to Partner with IC
12:49 Wins From Installing ChurchOS
15:27 Killing Sacred Cows with Courage
18:11 How the Team is Developing Differently
20:45 Creating Space for Hard Conversations
22:07 Modeling Feedback and Evaluation

Website: https://intentionalchurches.com
The Book: https://a.co/d/hFlz17C
The Blog: https://intentionalchurches.com/blog/
YouTube: www.youtube.com/@IntentionalChurches
Facebook: https://facebook.com/intentionalchurches
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/intentional-churches/mycompany/
Instagram: https://instagram.com/IntentionalChurches
X/Twitter: https://x.com/intentchurches

Join the conversation and let us know how you are leading your church toward the Great Commission!

On this week’s episode of the Intentional Churches podcast, pastor Tom Kopp joins Erin and Doug to share the inspiring transformation of Kimball Christian Church in rural Minnesota. Despite being located in a town of just 800, the church has become one of the largest churches in the restoration movement in the state, defying expectations through a strong vision and a deep commitment to The Great Commission.

In this candid conversation, Tom unpacks how focusing on church culture, casting a consistent vision, and making small yet intentional shifts can lead to an outsized impact. From implementing the “three-minute rule” for welcoming guests to celebrating baptisms churchwide, Tom shares practical strategies that any church can adopt, regardless of size.

Together, the three also discuss Tom’s involvement in a ChurchOS One Team cohort, which has catalyzed a new wave of mission-minded leadership among churches across Minnesota. With humor, wisdom, and hard-earned insight, this episode offers a blueprint for revitalization and unity in small church contexts, all while keeping the focus on reaching the one.

New to Intentional Churches? Start here:
https://intentionalchurches.com/radical-alignment

CHAPTERS:
00:00 Three-Minute Rule: A Culture of Guest Awareness
01:29 Tom’s Ministry Background and Family
04:05 Small-Town Ministry in Kimball, Minnesota
07:49 A 150-Year Legacy and New Growth
09:51 Building a Culture of Joy and Evangelism
12:56 Navigating Growth Resistance
15:32 Dripping Vision Weekly
17:08 The Drift Toward Inward Focus
19:30 ChurchOS Cohort Impact in Minnesota
22:37 Tangible Church Growth and Baptism Stories
26:31 Practical Tips for Churches Starting the Journey
29:17 Personal Connection Over Systems
32:17 Preaching for Transformation
33:08 What Large Churches Can Learn from Small Churches

Website: https://intentionalchurches.com
The Book: https://a.co/d/hFlz17C
The Blog: https://intentionalchurches.com/blog/
YouTube: www.youtube.com/@IntentionalChurches
Facebook: https://facebook.com/intentionalchurches
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/intentional-churches/mycompany/
Instagram: https://instagram.com/IntentionalChurches
X/Twitter: https://x.com/intentchurches

Join the conversation and let us know how you are leading your church toward the Great Commission!

Eric Rauch from 2|42 Church joins Doug and Erin for this week’s Intentional Churches conversation—exploring what it means to lead churches through a true disciple-making transformation. Together the three share honest reflections, practical adjustments, and philosophical shifts away from attractional church models and toward multiplying disciples.

The episode explores how both 2|42 and Erin’s church, Canyon Ridge, are redefining what it means to lead congregations into spiritual maturity and mission. They discuss practical shifts—from canceling outdated programs to redesigning volunteer engagement—and offer a window into the tough but rewarding process of redefining metrics and expectations.

Plus Eric shares how his team made it harder, not easier, to get baptized—shifting from events to journeys. Finally they look at what happens when churches stop simply informing and start truly equipping—using tools, powerful questions, and active collaboration to multiply disciples who will be the hands and feet of Jesus.

New to Intentional Churches? Start here:
https://intentionalchurches.com/radical-alignment

CHAPTERS:
00:00 No More "Versus": Discipleship and Evangelism
01:06 Meet Eric Rauch from 2|42 Church
04:21 2|42's Multi-Site History and Cultural Dynamics
06:20 Adopting Three Churches Pre-COVID
07:57 Redefining Disciple-Making and Evangelism
10:26 From Attractional to Multiplying Movement
14:33 Why Make the Shift? Leadership Insights
16:37 Tangible Program and Strategy Changes
20:49 Rethinking Group Models: The Kitchen Metaphor
23:29 Discovery Bible Study as Group Strategy
24:56 Rethinking Engagement Pathways
30:27 Volunteer Orientation and Retention
32:10 Baptism: Event to Journey
35:28 Highlights from the IC Conference Pre-Con
38:28 Biggest Takeaways and Collaborative Learning
41:35 Final Thoughts on Collaboration and Next Steps

Website: https://intentionalchurches.com
The Book: https://a.co/d/hFlz17C
The Blog: https://intentionalchurches.com/blog/
YouTube: www.youtube.com/@IntentionalChurches
Facebook: https://facebook.com/intentionalchurches
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/intentional-churches/mycompany/
Instagram: https://instagram.com/IntentionalChurches
X/Twitter: https://x.com/intentchurches

Join the conversation and let us know how you are leading your church toward the Great Commission!