In this episode of the Integration podcast, Mark Edwards joins Brendan Graham Dempsey and Nick Hedlund for an in-depth conversation on metatheory, meta-studies, and why methodological rigor is essential for navigating the global metacrisis. Edwards, one of the most influential contemporary scholars in integrative meta-studies, clarifies what metatheory is (and is not), why “big pictures” require disciplined methods, and how meta-studies can function as a kind of earth-system social science.

Key themes include the distinction between method and methodology, the role of absence and critique in generating new metatheoretical lenses, and the limits of progress-oriented and altitude-based frameworks. Edwards also reflects on epistemic humility, domain specificity, and pluralism — particularly the importance of taking indigenous and non-Western knowledge systems seriously in big-picture theorizing.

The discussion culminates in a wide-ranging reflection on the metacrisis, understood not only as a systems failure but as a planetary-scale trauma response, and on the future of meta-studies as a field grounded in what Edwards calls disciplined imagination.

0:00 Introduction

3:55 What Is Metatheory (and Why It Matters Now)

04:17 “Meta-Studies” as a …

10:51 Why Methodology Is the Missing Piece in Metatheory

13:52 Method vs Methodology

15:58 Scientific Methods for Metatheory

17:56 George Ritzer’s Four Functions of Metatheorising

19:50 From Meta-Methodology to Meta-Validity

21:18 Metatheory as a Human Universal

24:16 Moving Beyond Canonical “Great Thinkers” to Discover New Lenses

24:16 Absence as a Driver of Innovation in Metatheory

35:59 Integrating Across Domains Without Losing Rigor

42:08 The Problem with Altitude: Critiquing Progress-Oriented Metatheories

47:11 Indigenous Worldviews and the Problem with Cultural Stages

51:47 The Metacrisis and the Need for Metatheory

59:49 The Future of Meta-Studies: Disciplined Imagination

Robb Smith discusses the need for integrative conceptual work in today's world with Integration journal Editor-in-Chief Nicholas Hedlund and Managing Editor Brendan Graham Dempsey. Why do the interconnected challenges of the metacrisis demand integrative solutions? How are emancipatory struggles aided by embracing critical metatheory? What do the very patterns of knowledge integration suggest about a bold new story of wholeness? Finally, the three outline the vision and scope of the new journal and explore the nature and uses of an "integrative metatheory 2.0" beyond postmodernism.

Timestamps

0:00 IAM in the Context of Radical Social Morphogenesis

12:39 A Meta-Systematic Metacrisis in Need of Meta-Systematic Analysis

20:21 The Problems We Face and the Stories We Tell

31:39 Advancing a Worldview for Long-Term Good

38:56 Critical Metatheory and Emancipatory Struggle beyond Postmodernism

49:20 Knowledge Integration and a New Story of Wholeness

1:02:34 Integration: The Journal of Big Picture Theory and Practice

1:08:52 Integrative Metatheory 2.0 in Service of Planetary Flourishing

1:21:00 Competing Worldviews in the 21st Century for AI and Value Alignment

1:29:01 Conclusion