Ron Johnson has lived on both sides of the scoreboard.

At Apple, he was the Senior Vice President of Retail Operations who worked shoulder-to-shoulder with Steve Jobs to build the Apple Store from a blank sheet of paper — inventing the Genius Bar along the way and creating what became the most profitable retail square footage on earth. Before that, he was the merchandising leader at Target who brought Michael Graves to the masses. After Apple, he took the top job at J.C. Penney and things became real tough, real quick, becoming one of the most scrutinized CEO exits in modern retail.

In this conversation, Ron is remarkably candid about all of it. We talk about what success actually teaches you (less than you'd think), what failure teaches you (more than you want it to), and how to tell the difference between a bad idea and a good idea people weren't ready for. He shares what it was really like to earn Steve Jobs' trust, why he still believes the vision at Penney was right, and what he'd tell a leader standing at the edge of a big, risky bet right now.

Ron's new book, Shop Different: How Retail Revealed Apple's Genius (Harper Business, September 22, 2026), co-written with Zander Nethercutt, goes deeper — and he says it's less a retail book than a guide for anyone leading through technological change, and a reminder of what it means to be human in the age of AI.

If you're building something, scaling something, or rebuilding after something didn't work — this one's for you. Listen or watch now.

Learn more about Ron

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/shopdifferent

Latest book - https://www.harpercollins.com/products/shop-different-ron-johnsonzander-nethercutt?variant=44771032498210

Learn more about Patrick

Website - https://patrickleddin.com

Speaking - https://patrickleddin.com/speaking/

Newsletter - https://patrickleddin.kit.com/disrupt

Socials: https://linktr.ee/disruptiveinsightsllc

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