In this episode:

• Why Jade Wu had just woken from a nap before the interview
• Why she thinks of naps as snacks
• What happens when trying to make sleep happen becomes the problem
• Why Wu wrote Hello Sleep
• The access problem surrounding Cognitive Behavioral Therapy for Insomnia
• Who CBT-I is actually for — and what it does not treat
• Why an overnight sleep study is not routinely necessary for uncomplicated insomnia
• Neil's periodic limb movements and the case for treating comorbid sleep problems together
• What happened when a sleep psychologist became a severely sleep-deprived new parent
• Sleep disruption, postpartum depression and the danger of single-cause explanations
• Why sleep can be foundational without being the explanation for everything
• How sleep optimization and sleep trackers can create pressure
• Why melatonin is a timekeeping hormone rather than a sedative
• The label-accuracy problem in commercial melatonin products
• When melatonin may have legitimate circadian uses
• Why chronotype can collide with school and work schedules
• How social media and streaming services compete with sleep
• Why daytime light changes the brain's sensitivity to evening light
• What the evidence does — and does not — say about screens and blue-light blocking
• Mindfulness without turning mindfulness into another performance task

Dr. Jade Wu, PhD, DBSM, is a board-certified sleep psychologist, researcher and author of Hello Sleep: The Science and Art of Overcoming Insomnia Without Medications. Duke University currently lists her as an Associate in Research whose work focuses on treating sleep disorders in people with chronic illness. Her own site describes her broader work in behavioral sleep medicine, public education and her company Thrive; it also lists her as a Clinical Assistant Professor at SUNY Upstate Medical University and says she will join Cornell University's Psychology Department faculty in Fall 2026.

Wu earned her undergraduate degree at Cornell, her PhD at Boston University, and completed medical psychology residency and clinical fellowship training at Duke University School of Medicine.

• Hello Sleep: The Science and Art of Overcoming Insomnia Without Medications — Jade Wu
• Jade Wu — Duke Department of Neurology
• Dr. Jade Wu
• AASM guideline: behavioral and psychological treatments for chronic insomnia
• 2025 systematic review: CBT for adult insomnia in routine clinical care
• AASM practice parameters: evaluation of chronic insomnia and use of polysomnography
• 2017 study: melatonin content variability and serotonin in commercial supplements
• 2023 study: melatonin and CBD quantities in U.S. melatonin gummies
• Health Canada: melatonin as a natural health product
• AASM pharmacologic guideline: melatonin and chronic insomnia
• The human circadian system adapts to prior photic history
• 2024 National Sleep Foundation consensus statement on screens and sleep
• 2025 systematic review and meta-analysis of blue-light blocking glasses and objective sleep
• The Many Challenges of Insomnia — Dr. Jade Wu
• Sex & Sleep: Was It Good For You?