Ocean with David Attenborough (2025) was a powerful and unflinching wakeup call exploring the vital importance of Earth’s oceans and the growing threats they face, featuring shocking footage revealing the devastation caused by bottom trawling.

For this podcast, Amanda Carpenter spoke to Olly Scholey, Field Producer on Ocean, and Dr Tom Appleby, Chief of Legal Affairs at Blue Marine Foundation, to gain insight into the making of the film and examine how the law can—and should—be used to better protect our seas.

How did the production team capture such dramatic footage oftrawling? Why is bottom trawling still permitted in Marine Protected Areas? How has the trawler fishing community responded to the film? How do government policies permit this destruction — and in some cases, actively subsidise it? Considering the fact that the UK fishery and seabed are owned by the Crown on behalf of the public; and the international fishery belongs to all people of all nations, how can lawyers protect ocean health? We explore all this and more.

Questions for this podcast were based on the audience participation at the Legal Sustainability Alliance’s and Blue Marine Foundation’s event, a screening of Ocean and panel discussion.

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In this episode, Sophia Adams Bhatti is joined by Bhargav Srinivasa Desikan for a deep dive into the carbon cost of AI—from the energy demands of large models to the hidden environmental impacts of everyday digital tools. Bhargav unpacks the origins of AI, what organisations can do to reduce their digital footprint, the innovations and policy that could make AI more sustainable and what law firms in particular need to understand as they adopt these technologies. An essential conversation for anyone navigating the future of AI in a responsible law firm.

Bhargav Srinivasa Desikan is currently the AI and Tech lead at the Autonomy Institute, and a Doctoral Candidate at the University of Oxford. His research spans the intersection of AI and society, and has been published at Nature, Cognition, Organisation Studies, and leading annual computer science conferences. He also holds research affiliate positions at the University of Cambridge, University of Chicago, and Stanford University.

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For this special episode Amanda Carpenter returns to the studio to talk to Wangui Kaniaru, Partner at ALN, Kenya. Early on in her career, Wangui was told that rather than justice, law is about trade-offs, incentives and outcomes. Realising that this is a mischaracterisation of the role law can play, Wangui put her head above the parapet to ask questions about climate justice and the role of lawyers and rule of law in a society facing the devastating impacts of the climate crisis.

How can questions of justice serve your clients and lead to more innovative, creative, and durable outcomes? Amanda and Wangui reflect on how to be a thoughtful lawyer, the implications of the ICJ ruling and nurturing hope for future generations.

"Hope has two beautiful daughters; their names are Anger and Courage. Anger at the way things are, and Courage to see that they do not remain as they are." St Augustine of Hippo

Wangui Kaniaru

Wangui Kaniaru is a Partner at ALN Kenya. She advises on complex cross-border transactions, restructurings, and regulatory matters and has lived and worked in the United States, Asia and Africa. An Advocate of the High Court of Kenya, she is also deeply engaged in climate change policy and sustainability, examining how corporate law can advance investment in sustainable and ethical business practices and planetary stewardship. Beyond her practice, she explores the intersection of law, governance, and creative expression, using poetry to explore memory, resilience, and belonging.

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