What do we mean when we say, “The Bible says…”?

In this episode of Holy Uncertain, hosts Lauren Ranzino and Chris McLeod are joined by theologian and cultural historian David Dault, author of The Accessorized Bible, to look more closely at the layers of interpretation, translation, publishing, culture, and community that shape the way we encounter Scripture.

Together, they explore why the Bible rarely “speaks for itself,” how different Christian communities can read the same text and arrive at very different conclusions, and what happens when our interpretations are treated as if they carry the unquestionable authority of God. David also challenges the idea that the goal is simply to find the one perfect reading - asking instead what responsibility we have for the ways the Bible is used in the lives of other people.

The conversation moves from biblical inerrancy and competing versions of Scripture to the ways the Bible has been used throughout history both to justify harm and to inspire liberation. And underneath it all is a practical question: what might change if we approached Scripture not as a tool for winning arguments, but as something that should help us love people better?

If you’ve ever wondered how much of what you were taught about the Bible came from the text itself or how much came from the people interpreting it, this episode offers a thoughtful place to wrestle with those questions.

Continue learning from David Dault:
www.daviddault.com
Things Not Seen, David’s award-winning radio show and podcast
Instagram: @daultradio

Read David’s Books:
The Accessorized Bible
And More

Have a question or topic you want us to explore?
Email us: questions@holyuncertain.com

Holy Uncertain is a Blue Elevator production.

What happens when the faith that gives you belonging also teaches you that a part of who you are needs to change in order to be fully accepted?

In this episode of Holy Uncertain, hosts Lauren Ranzino and Chris McLeod are joined by writer, advocate, and Conversion Therapy Dropout author Timothy Schraeder Rodriguez to explore the impact of growing up gay in a Christian tradition that taught him his sexuality needed to change.

Tim shares his story of spending nearly a decade trying to change his sexuality through conversion therapy while working behind the scenes at some of the most influential megachurches in the country – all while believing that being fully known could cost him his faith, community, and career. This episode explores shame, belonging, and Tim’s journey toward reconciling his sexuality and faith.

Rather than asking listeners to arrive at a particular theological conclusion, this conversation invites us to listen to the story of someone directly impacted by these beliefs – and to consider the human consequences our theology can have.

If you’ve ever questioned the church’s teachings around sexuality or wondered how your deeply held beliefs impact others, this conversation offers a thoughtful place to listen, wrestle, and reflect.

Learn More from Tim:
www.timothysrodriguez.com
www.conversiontherapydropoutbook.com
Instagram: @timothy.s.rodriguez

Read Tim’s book:
Conversion Therapy Dropout: A Queer Story of Faith and Belonging

Resources Shared in the Episode: Church Clarity / Q Christian Fellowship

Books: God and The Gay Christian by Matthew Vines / Torn by Justin Lee / Queer and Christian by Brandon Robertson

Documentaries: Pray Away / 1946

Holy Uncertain is a Blue Elevator production.

What responsibility does the church have to people who have been hurt?

In this episode of Holy Uncertain, hosts Lauren Ranzino and Chris McLeod are joined by New Testament scholar Dr. Scot McKnight and therapist Adrienne Gibson to explore what it means for churches to become trauma-informed.

Together, they unpack what trauma actually is and why church environments can feel unsafe for people who have been hurt. Rather than placing the burden on traumatized people to return to church, Scot and Adrienne ask what responsibility churches have to create spaces where people feel safe, seen, and cared for.

Drawing from their book The Traumatized Church: What Paul's Relationship with the Corinthian Church Can Teach Us About Healing Our Trauma and the Traumas of Those Around Us, they discuss spiritual bypassing, embodied trauma, trauma-informed leadership, and the practical changes churches can make to become places of healing rather than harm.

If you've ever experienced church hurt, wondered why some church spaces feel unsafe, or asked what churches can do to better care for wounded people, this conversation offers a thoughtful place to wrestle and reflect.

Continue learning from Dr. Scot McKnight & Adrienne Gibson:

Scot’s Instagram: @scotandkris
Scot’s Substack
Adrienne’s Website
Adrienne’s Instagram: @traumafocusedauthor

Read Scot and Adrienne’s Book:
The Traumatized Church: What Paul's Relationship with the Corinthian Church Can Teach Us About Healing Our Trauma and the Traumas of Those Around Us

Have a question or topic you want us to explore?
Email us: questions@holyuncertain.com

Holy Uncertain is a Blue Elevator production.

What actually happens when prayer moves beyond words?

In this episode of Holy Uncertain, hosts Lauren Ranzino and Chris McLeod are joined by researcher and psychological anthropologist Josh Brahinsky to explore one of the most misunderstood and debated practices in charismatic Christianity: speaking in tongues.
Josh, author of Tongues of Fire: How Charismatic Prayer Changes Evangelical Brains and Inspires Spirit-Filled Activism, has spent years studying the practice through fieldwork, interviews, and brain imaging. Together, they talk about what speaking in tongues is, why it has been dismissed or misunderstood, and what research can help us understand about surrender, prayer, the body, and the brain.
This conversation holds the tension many people carry around charismatic faith: the real experiences that brought comfort, clarity, or connection to God, alongside the manipulation, fear, and harm that have too often surrounded those same spaces.
If you’ve ever wondered whether speaking in tongues is real, fake, spiritual, psychological, or something more complicated than any one category can hold, this episode offers a thoughtful place to wrestle and reflect.
Continue to learn from Josh Brahinsky:

www.theprayerstudy.com

www.instagram.com/theprayerstudy
Read Josh’s Book:
Tongues of Fire: How Charismatic Prayer Changes Evangelical Brains and Inspires Spirit-Filled Activism
Have a question or topic you want us to explore?
Email us: questions@holyuncertain.com

Holy Uncertain is a Blue Elevator production.

What happens when God’s name is used to justify violence?

In this episode of Holy Uncertain, hosts Lauren Ranzino and Chris McLeod are joined by activist, speaker, and author Shane Claiborne to consider how we might think about violence and war alongside the teachings of Jesus.

Shane reflects on what it means to follow the “Prince of Peace” in a world shaped by conflict, nationalism, state violence, and religious justifications for war. Together, they explore just war theory, Christian nationalism, the witness of the early church, and what it would mean to take Jesus’ command to love our enemies seriously.

Drawing from his years of peacemaking work—from living in Iraq during the mass bombing of Baghdad to advocating against the death penalty, gun violence, and war—Shane invites us to consider that the way of Jesus may offer a different kind of courage than the way of the sword.

If you’ve ever struggled to reconcile Christianity with war and violence, or with the ways God’s name has been used to justify harm, this conversation offers a thoughtful place to wrestle and reflect.

Continue to learn from Shane Claiborne:
www.shaneclaiborne.com
Instagram: @shane.claiborne
Red Letter Christians

Read Shane’s Books:

Rethinking Life: Embracing the Sacredness of Every Person
The Irresistible Revolution
Jesus for President

And more

Have a question or topic you want us to explore?
Email us: questions@holyuncertain.com

Holy Uncertain is a Blue Elevator production.

What if doubt isn’t a sign that your faith is falling apart?

After a short break, Holy Uncertain is back for Season Two with a conversation about doubt, faith, and what happens when the questions we were taught to fear become part of how we grow.

In this episode, hosts Chris McLeod and Lauren Ranzino are joined by pastor, writer, and author Meredith Miller to explore how many of us inherited faith systems where certainty was treated as strength and doubt was treated as danger. Meredith, author of Woven: Nurturing a Faith Your Kid Doesn’t Have to Heal From, helps us rethink what it means to hold questions without shame—and what it might look like to build a faith that doesn’t collapse when life gets complicated.

Together, they talk about the difference between a faith built like a tower and a faith woven like a web, why questioning can be a normal and necessary part of growth, and how adults can begin to heal from the ways they were taught to relate to God, the Bible, and themselves.

If you’ve ever felt afraid that your doubts meant you were losing your faith, this conversation offers a more generous way to imagine what might be happening instead.

Continue learning from Meredith Miller:
www.meredithannemiller.com
Instagram: @meredithannemiller
Substack

Read Meredith’s Books:
Woven: Nurturing a Faith Your Kid Doesn’t Have to Heal From
Wonder: 52 Conversations to Help Kids Fall in Love with Scripture

Reweaving Devotional (for adults)
Use Code: podcast for 50% off

Have a question or topic you want us to explore?
Email us: questions@holyuncertain.com

Holy Uncertain is a Blue Elevator production.

After twelve episodes exploring faith, doubt, and everything in between, we’re taking a moment to reflect.

What has changed in us?
What questions are we still holding?
And what’s next?

In this Season One wrap-up, hosts Lauren Ranzino and Chris McLeod revisit the voices and ideas that shaped this first chapter—from rethinking how we read the Bible to expanding our understanding of the gospel, from stories of harm and healing to the hope that people can change. They reflect on what it means to listen with humility, to stay curious, and to let uncertainty open us up rather than shut us down.

Whether you’ve been with us from the beginning or are just finding the show, this episode is an invitation: to keep asking honest questions, to make space for new perspectives, and to trust that you’re not alone in the process. Plus, we share what’s ahead for the next season and the topics we’re excited to explore.

Spread the word about the podcast, catch up on episodes you’ve missed, and we’ll see you in about a month.

Have a question or topic you want us to explore in future episodes?
Email us: questions@holyuncertain.com

Holy Uncertain is a Blue Elevator production.

Justice is central to the teachings of the Bible—so why has it become so contested within Christianity?

In this episode of Holy Uncertain, hosts Lauren Ranzino and Chris McLeod are joined by priest, theologian, and author Fr. Joash Thomas to discuss how history, culture, and power have shaped the Western church’s understanding of justice, and what might be lost when care for the vulnerable becomes secondary to ideology or certainty.

Drawing from his own story—growing up in India as part of an ancient Christian tradition and later working within American politics—Joash offers a perspective that challenges the ways many of us have come to understand justice, faith, and what it means to follow Jesus.

This conversation invites a broader, more global view of Christianity—one that learns from traditions outside the Western church and re-centers the life and teachings of Jesus as a call to love, humility, and care for others.

If you’ve ever wondered why justice has become so complicated within the church—or felt disillusioned by the divide—this episode offers a thoughtful place to wrestle and reflect.

Continue to learn from Joash Thomas:
www.joashpthomas.com
Instagram: @joashpthomas
Substack: Masala Chai Theology with Fr. Joash P. Thomas
Read Joash’s Book:
The Justice of Jesus

Have a question or topic you want us to explore?
Email us: questions@holyuncertain.com
Holy Uncertain is a Blue Elevator production.