He had one formula for building trust in fintech: promises kept divided by promises made.

Anup Agrawal spent years at LazyPay watching how India actually pays — and what he saw was striking. 85% of consumer transactions ran on UPI. Credit cards existed, but they weren't built for the way India's new generation spends. So he built Kiwi: a credit card designed as a delightful UPI experience, with credit rails underneath and instant cashback on top.

In this conversation with Rahul, Anup unpacks the product decisions behind Kiwi — including a data point that surprises most fintech insiders (80% of Kiwi spends are offline, the exact opposite of the industry norm), a product failure that reshaped their rewards design (users who made their first transaction at a fuel station churned when they got no rewards), and two mental models he uses to make every product decision: the Trust Formula and the Ginger Product rule. He also makes a sharp case for why retention has to come before growth — every time.

Timestamps

00:00 | From LazyPay Data to the UPI Credit Idea

03:43 | What Kiwi Actually Is — "A Delightful UPI Experience"

05:52 | Why Gen-Z UPI Users Need Credit (The Utility Ladder)

06:43 | Virtual vs Physical Cards — and the Offline Stat That Flips the Industry

09:34 | Who Kiwi Is For — Credit-Invisible Affluents, Not Thin-File Poor

10:59 | Retention First: Why Kiwi Doesn't Push Growth Until It's Ready

12:25 | The Fintech-Bank Division of Labour

14:35 | The Trust Formula: Promises Kept ÷ Promises Made

17:35 | When Product Fails: The Fuel Attrition Story

19:31 | Cashback vs Points — Why Kiwi Bets Against Breakage

20:59 | Competing With Cred and PhonePe: Focus Over Distribution

23:07 | The Ginger Product Rule + Kiwi's Three Dimensions

25:53 | The 2035 Vision — Imagine the Taj Mahal Before It's Built

About Anup Agrawal

Anup Agrawal is the founder of Kiwi, a fintech company building credit card products designed for India's UPI-native generation. Before Kiwi, he led product and growth at LazyPay, where consumer behaviour data — specifically the 85% UPI dominance in Indian transactions — sparked the founding insight. Kiwi targets "credit-invisible affluents": users with income but limited formal credit history, who are well-served by UPI but underserved by traditional credit products.

Anup on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anup-agrawal-a2915b11

Kiwi website: https://gokiwi.in/

Rahul Thayyalamkandy

Director of Comms & Community, Vertex Ventures SEA & India

Rahul Thayyalamkandy joined the SEA/India team as the Director of Communication & Community in 2024 and is based in Singapore.

Before joining Vertex, Rahul served as a Product Manager at BLOCK71, an incubator and joint venture of NUS Enterprise and Singtel Innov8, where he developed scalable services for portfolio startups and designed mentorship programs. He also gained experience as a Summer Associate at Cocoon Capital, working with the Managing Partner on investment deals.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/rahulthayyalamkandy/

—-

Vertex Ventures Southeast Asia & India is a pioneer in investing in tech start-ups in this region and has helped to build a number of unicorns. In this podcast, we seek to share and uncover the Hard Truth - raw, unfiltered insights and venture capital knowledge from across Southeast Asia and India. Tune in to learn from leading founders, innovators, venture capitalists, and industry experts in the region and gain industry insights from those in the know.

If you like what you hear, please follow or subscribe to the show so you don’t miss out on any of our upcoming discussions.

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Follow us to get notified whenever new episodes are shared.

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For more information, please visit: ⁠https://www.vertexventures.sg⁠

#Kiwifintech, #UPI, UPIcreditcard, #fintech, #LazyPay, #creditcardIndia, #RBI, #cashback, #Cred, #PhonePe, #founder

How do VCs pick that one billion-dollar startup… before the world sees it?

I sat down with Kee Lock, a veteran venture capitalist who’s spent decades backing founders, navigating failures, and building companies from zero to exit. We unpack his real playbook—from sourcing deals and spotting great founders to surviving the brutal 0→1 and 10→100M growth journey in venture capital.

He shares how pattern recognition is built, why most investors get market size wrong, and the subtle red flags that instantly kill a startup pitch.

If you’re curious about startup investing, venture capital strategy, fundraising, and what actually makes a founder worth betting on—this one’s packed with insights you won’t hear elsewhere.

IN THIS EPISODE

00:30 | How VCs find winning startups (and how you get noticed)

01:30 | The exact checklist before investing in any startup

02:05 | 4 ways top VCs discover breakout founders

06:50 | Early mistakes that cost investors millions

07:58 | How VCs build “gut instinct” for great startups

08:45 | The 3 filters every VC uses before investing

09:52 | Why judging founders is harder than you think

15:20 | Red flags that instantly kill a startup pitch

16:54 | How to judge if your market is actually big

22:47 | How VCs actually help startups grow (beyond money)

33:32 | When and how VCs decide to exit

42:47 | Why VC training is like flying a fighter jet

Kee Lock CHUA

Mr Chua Kee Lock is the Group President / CEO of Vertex Holdings (“VH”), a Singapore-headquartered venture capital investment holding company. VH is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Temasek.

Vertex Group is a global venture capital network comprising 5 early-stage technology-focused funds (Vertex Ventures China, Vertex Ventures Israel, Vertex Ventures US, Vertex Ventures SEA & India, Vertex Ventures Japan), an early-stage healthcare-focused fund (Vertex Ventures HC) and a growth-stage fund (Vertex Growth). Each of these funds is managed by independent and separate General Partnerships and investment teams, with VH providing anchor funding alongside significant 3rd party capital commitments. Vertex Group manages USD 6.8B in assets. Mr Chua is currently Managing Partner of Vertex Ventures SEA & India, as well as Chairman of Vertex Growth Fund.

Rahul Thayyalamkandy

Director of Comms & Community, Vertex Ventures SEA & India

Rahul Thayyalamkandy joined the SEA/India team as the Director of Communication & Community in 2024 and is based in Singapore.

Before joining Vertex, Rahul served as a Product Manager at BLOCK71, an incubator and joint venture of NUS Enterprise and Singtel Innov8, where he developed scalable services for portfolio startups and designed mentorship programs. He also gained experience as a Summer Associate at Cocoon Capital, working with the Managing Partner on investment deals.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/rahulthayyalamkandy/

—-

Vertex Ventures Southeast Asia & India is a pioneer in investing in tech start-ups in this region and has helped to build a number of unicorns. In this podcast, we seek to share and uncover the Hard Truth - raw, unfiltered insights and venture capital knowledge from across Southeast Asia and India. Tune in to learn from leading founders, innovators, venture capitalists, and industry experts in the region and gain industry insights from those in the know.

If you like what you hear, please follow or subscribe to the show so you don’t miss out on any of our upcoming discussions.

—

Follow us to get notified whenever new episodes are shared.

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For more information, please visit: https://www.vertexventures.sg

#hardtruthsbyvertexventures #vertexventures #entrepreneurship #startups #venturecapital #vc #podcast #businessleaders

Why would someone quit chasing “big startup ideas” to redesign something as ordinary as a ceiling fan?

In this episode, I sit down with Gazal, co-founder of Nuuk, to trace her journey from a personal problem at home to building a design-led consumer electronics startup in India.

We talk about how COVID changed the way Indians live indoors, why Indian consumers are shifting from cheap to meaningful products, and how Nuuk builds home appliances designed specifically for Indian homes.

Gazal shares the thinking behind product-first brands, women-led design, and what it really takes to scale a modern Indian consumer brand without cutting corners.

If you care about startup journeys, consumer brands in India, or product design that actually solves real problems, this episode will pull you in.

If you want it more playful, more founder-centric, or even punchier for YouTube, say the word and I’ll tune it!

IN THIS EPISODE
(00:00) Why Nuuk Isn’t “Just Another Appliance Brand”
(01:28) The Personal Problem That Started Nuuk
(04:40) How Indian Consumers Are Changing (And Why It Matters to You)
(06:21) Who’s Actually Buying Nuuk — The Answer Will Surprise You
(12:11) How Nuuk Turns Daily Frustrations into Product Ideas
(16:09) Designing Appliances That Actually Work in Indian Homes
(23:28) The Hidden Health Risk Lurking in Indian Mattresses
(29:28) Why Building in India Is Harder Than It Looks
(30:46) What “Safe Kitchens” Really Mean (And Why You Should Care)
(34:49) How Nuuk Builds Trust After the Sale
(41:54) Nuuk’s 10-Year Vision — And What’s Coming Next

Gazal Kalra | Co-Founder | Nuuk
Gazal Kalra is the Co-Founder of Nuuk, a new-age D2C brand for home appliances, shaping the Indian home with purposeful innovation and design-first thinking. At Nuuk, she brings a product-led approach rooted in human-centered design and operational excellence with a vision to create high-performance appliances that reflect modern lifestyles. Gazal is deeply committed to building consumer brands that solve real-world problems alongside raising the bar for thoughtful design, long-term utility, and a future-ready approach to sustainability.

Before Nuuk, Gazal co-founded Rivigo, the logistics-tech unicorn that disrupted India’s long-haul trucking sector by introducing relay trucking and tech-enabled efficiency at scale - cementing her reputation as a bold problem-solver with an eye for scalable impact. Her career also spans influential roles at McKinsey & Company and the World Bank in Washington DC, giving her a unique cross-sectoral perspective on systems, policy, and innovation.

Rahul Thayyalamkandy
Director of Comms & Community, Vertex Ventures SEA & India

Rahul Thayyalamkandy joined the SEA/India team as the Director of Communication & Community in 2024 and is based in Singapore.

Before joining Vertex, Rahul served as a Product Manager at BLOCK71, an incubator and joint venture of NUS Enterprise and Singtel Innov8, where he developed scalable services for portfolio startups and designed mentorship programs. He also gained experience as a Summer Associate at Cocoon Capital, working with the Managing Partner on investment deals.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/rahulthayyalamkandy/

—-

Vertex Ventures Southeast Asia & India is a pioneer in investing in tech start-ups in this region and has helped to build a number of unicorns. In this podcast, we seek to share and uncover the Hard Truth - raw, unfiltered insights and venture capital knowledge from across Southeast Asia and India. Tune in to learn from leading founders, innovators, venture capitalists, and industry experts in the region and gain industry insights from those in the know.

If you like what you hear, please follow or subscribe to the show so you don’t miss out on any of our upcoming discussions.

—

Follow us to get notified whenever new episodes are shared.

—

For more information, please visit: https://www.vertexventures.sg