What does it take to build a category-defining company not once, but twice? Long before Salesforce, a kid from a fruit farm in Oliver, BC was quietly helping invent the CRM industry.

In this premiere episode of Giants, host Nejeed Kassam sits down with Norm Francis, co-founder of Basic Software Group and Pivotal Corporation, to trace a career that helped put Vancouver on the global technology map. They discuss how farming roots in Oliver instilled the self-reliance that shaped Norm’s career, the early bet on personal computers that became Simply Accounting, and what four years inside Computer Associates taught him about acquisitions from the other side of the table.

Then came the pivot that inspired the company’s name. When the pen computing industry collapsed after burning through hundreds of millions in venture capital, Norm and his team made a complete turnaround, building Pivotal into one of the first platforms to unify sales, marketing, and customer service into a single customer view.

Tune in for a fascinating conversation on entrepreneurship, resilience, leadership, and the lessons that come with building through both opportunity and uncertainty.

In This Episode:

• [00:01] Introduction to Norm Francis and Vancouver's tech history

• [01:18] Growing up in Oliver, BC and lessons from farm life

• [05:19] Why curiosity shaped Norm's career

• [08:10] Building cultures that encourage debate and disagreement

• [09:21] The origins of Basic Software Group and Simply Accounting

• [12:07] Why co-founder relationships matter

• [13:19] Selling Basic Software Group and lessons from acquisition

• [16:44] Leaving entrepreneurship and discovering Pen Computing

• [18:00] How failure led to the creation of Pivotal and CRM

• [22:08] The dangers of growing too fast during market booms

• [24:06] Leadership lessons from the aftermath of 9/11

• [27:13] Navigating economic shocks and uncertainty

• [28:00] Dinner with Bill Gates and Microsoft's role in Pivotal's growth

• [31:23] Transitioning from operator to investor and philanthropist

• [34:47] What Norm looks for in founders and startups

• [39:02] Applying business principles to philanthropy

• [40:32] Rapid-fire questions

Notable Quotes

• [07:29] "Young people need to be adaptable and being curious and accepting the future, not knowing what it'll be, and being adaptable. Curiosity is a really important part of that." — Norm Francis

• [26:22] "Entrepreneurs, especially when you're wound up in the fear of missing out, tend to procrastinate. You have to trust the signals and make the difficult decisions without delay." — Norm Francis

• [33:58] "Many business relationships are relationships of convenience. They're not genuine. The investment banker, the lawyer — they need to move on because that's where the revenue is. It's important to be able to read people and recognize what's genuine." — Norm Francis

• [42:33] "A straight talker who is passionately committed to whatever they're doing." — Norm Francis, on what makes him trust a founder instantly

  
  

• Our Guest

  Norm Francis is one of Canada's pioneering software entrepreneurs. He co-founded Basic Software Group, creators of Simply Accounting and AccPac, before later co-founding Pivotal Corporation, one of the early leaders in Customer Relationship Management (CRM) software. Throughout his career, Norm helped shape Vancouver's technology ecosystem while building companies, mentoring entrepreneurs, investing in startups, and supporting philanthropic initiatives focused on community impact.

  About Nejeed Kassam

  Nejeed Kassam is an entrepreneur, investor, lawyer, and community builder. Through Giants, he sits down with the founders, builders, and visionaries who helped shape Vancouver and are building its future. The show explores the decisions, disasters, and defining moments behind some of the region's most influential leaders.

  Resources and Links

  Norm Francis

  • LinkedIn

  Nejeed Kassam

  • LinkedIn
    

Giants is a storytelling podcast about the people who shape Vancouver’s skyline, economy, and culture. Hosted by Nejeed Kassam, our 40 minute episodes explore the people behind some of our city’s best institutions and biggest exports. We dig into the human architecture of building - the pivots, the exits, and the raw mettle that never makes it to LinkedIn. By uncovering the untold stories of those who dare to build, we aim to empower this generation of builders–and the next–in the 604 and beyond.