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Olivia Fox Cabane, author of the international bestseller The Charisma Myth, joins Joe to explore the science and practice of charisma—what it really is, why the biggest myths about it persist, and how anyone can deliberately develop it.

This episode dismantles the idea that charisma is an innate, magical quality reserved for a lucky few. Olivia shows that charisma is a set of learned behaviors built on three core elements—presence, power, and warmth—that can be dialed up or down depending on personality, situation, and goals. She explains how these elements work together (much like sugar, fat, and salt) to create the powerful effect we label “charisma,” and why first impressions form in under two seconds largely through body language rather than status symbols or titles.

Olivia also unpacks the internal work required: managing the inner critic, dismantling imposter syndrome, using visualization and gratitude to shift mindset, and practicing self-compassion so confidence (and therefore power) can show up externally. She shares practical tools for presence (from a two-second toe focus to short meditation), warmth, and power, while warning about the real downsides of leaving the “charisma switch” on too long—people oversharing, leaders persuading others of flawed ideas, and the emotional cost of constant high output.

Joe and Olivia also discuss:

• Why presence, power, and warmth must all reach a minimum threshold, yet different “flavors” of charisma (authority, kindness, visionary, etc.) emerge from which element is strongest
• How body language consistently outweighs titles, cars, or clothing in conveying power
• Why distraction (especially phones) instantly kills charisma and how even a 17-millisecond delay in facial response registers as inauthentic
• The role of self-criticism as the biggest inhibitor of power—and why self-compassion and instant self-forgiveness are essential tools
• Practical ways to combat imposter syndrome: destigmatize it, detach from the feeling, and reframe it as useful fuel
• Visualization techniques (and gratitude practices) for generating genuine warmth before walking into a room
• How to accept compliments so the other person feels good for giving them
• Emotional contagion in leadership and why a leader’s calm under stress can steady an entire team
• The surprising science of voice, online charisma (bandwidth, camera angle, gesturing even when unseen), and why lower pitch is not inherently more charismatic
• The darker sides of high charisma: over-persuasion of bad ideas, people getting “hooked,” and the need to sometimes dial it down
• Why self-regulation is the single most important underlying skill

This episode is for anyone who wants to become more influential, present, and effective—whether in leadership, sales, interviews, or everyday interactions—without relying on status or personality luck. It is also for those who already feel charismatic and want to use the skill more deliberately and responsibly, for founders and managers seeking healthier team dynamics, and for anyone ready to treat charisma as a trainable set of behaviors rather than a fixed trait.

A special thanks to this week's sponsors!

Veteran-founded Adyton. Step into the next generation of equipment management with Log-E by Adyton. Whether you are doing monthly inventories or preparing for deployment, Log-E is your pocket property book, giving real-time visibility into equipment status and mission readiness. Learn more about how Log-E can revolutionize your property tracking process here!

Meet ROGER Bank—a modern, digital bank built for military members, by military members. With early payday, no fees, high-yield accounts, and real support, it’s banking that gets you. Funds are FDIC insured through Citizens Bank of Edmond, so you can bank with confidence and peace of mind.

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On the fifth anniversary of the U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan, General (Ret.) Scott Miller, the final commander of U.S. and NATO forces in Afghanistan, joins Joe for a candid conversation about the war, its ending, and what we owe the people who served there.

General Miller reflects on watching Afghanistan collapse after he left the country, the anger he carried afterward, and why he ultimately decided not to let that anger define the rest of his life. He also addresses the questions many veterans still wrestle with: Was it worth it? What should we be proud of? And what lessons must we carry forward?

Joe and General Miller also discuss:

• The habits General Miller believes veterans should carry with them into civilian life
• How watching the fall of Afghanistan affected him personally
• What Task Force Ranger taught General Miller about loss, brotherhood, trust, and learning from combat
• The responsibility veterans have to remember the fallen and stay connected with their families
• Why learning lessons may be more valuable than simply assigning blame
• How repeated rotations and a lack of continuity hurt America’s understanding of Afghanistan
• General Miller’s perspective on the closure of Bagram and the risks involved in keeping it open
• Why senior-leader accountability is essential to maintaining trust in institutions
• The difference between winning tactical battles and achieving strategic objectives
• Why any serious assessment of a war has to begin with the objectives leaders were actually given
• What General Miller believes a successful transition looks like five years after leaving the Army

This episode is for veterans still making sense of Afghanistan, the leaders responsible for learning from it, and anyone who has struggled to reconcile honorable service with a painful outcome. Five years later, the question is not only what happened in Afghanistan, but what we choose to learn from it—and what those who served there choose to carry forward.

A special thanks to our sponsors

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George Barrios, former co-president of World Wrestling Entertainment (WWE), co-founder and co-CEO of Isos Capital Management, and author of Sometimes Wrong, But Never in Doubt, joins Joe to explore leadership, preparation, reinvention, and what it takes to transform an organization.

This episode examines George’s unconventional path from nearly failing out of high school to becoming one of the key executives behind WWE’s evolution into a global media and entertainment company. George reflects on the influence of his Cuban immigrant parents, the people who redirected his life, and the lessons he carried from each stage of his career.

George also explains why conviction should come from preparation rather than bravado. He shares how deep research, systems thinking, and a willingness to understand every part of a business helped him and Michelle Wilson recognize opportunities others could not yet see.

Joe and George also discuss:

• Why life should be viewed as a movie rather than a single photograph
• How George’s parents shaped his approach to work, learning, and adversity
• Why leaders must understand the box before they can think outside of it
• Why a short presentation may require hundreds of pages of preparation
• The difference between confidence and unsupported certainty
• Why people often want the position but not the work required to earn it
• The emotional journey of building something meaningful
• Why reading widely helps leaders connect ideas across industries
• Why experts can explain how a system works but may struggle to imagine how it could change
• What George learned from working alongside Vince McMahon and Michelle Wilson
• How George thinks about failure, reputation, reinvention, and rewriting the ending

This episode is for leaders, entrepreneurs, and problem-solvers who want to think more deeply, prepare more thoroughly, and pursue difficult work with conviction. It is also for anyone whose life has not followed a straight path and needs the reminder that one bad photograph does not define the entire movie.

Watch the full interview on YouTube

A special thanks to this week's sponsors!

Veteran-founded Adyton. Step into the next generation of equipment management with Log-E by Adyton. Whether you are doing monthly inventories or preparing for deployment, Log-E is your pocket property book, giving real-time visibility into equipment status and mission readiness. Learn more about how Log-E can revolutionize your property tracking process here!

Meet ROGER Bank—a modern, digital bank built for military members, by military members. With early payday, no fees, high-yield accounts, and real support, it’s banking that gets you. Funds are FDIC insured through Citizens Bank of Edmond, so you can bank with confidence and peace of mind.