Having completed "The Impossible House" project, Robert Fortunato changed his career and switched from the corporate world of mergers and acquisitions to helping others tap into the green movement. He is now a green building advocate, an experienced practitioner, consultant, and educator.

This episode is a follow-on interview. Episode #230 documented his inspiring green home construction project. While he was told repeatedly why he could not pursue a fossil-free and healthy home, Robert was determined, got educated, convened smart collaborators, and "impossible" was transformed into reality. He burns no fossil fuels, his home is healthier, and his family is saving money every day.

Robert and Ted discuss the role of green building consultants, helping clients to plan carefully, and to tap into new technologies that make sense. Robert is an owner's rep; he who works on behalf of clients. Like Ted, he has worked with schools, businesses, and homeowners making sure they realize savings for their investments.

Robert stresses the need for consideration of green measures early in the design process. Things like relatively small investments in whole house surge protection can be readily incorporated, providing insurance for years to come. Robert and Ted talk about the merits of "doing it right" the first time: They discuss orientation for solar, recognizing varying levels of shading throughout the year and both its cooling benefits and solar power generation demerits.

The short and long-term benefits of solar and green measures are front and center in the conversation... providing dollar savings, healthier environments and comfort. Robert and Ted focus on lifecycle benefits - which can be in the hundreds of thousands of dollars - versus the upfront costs of measures which can be in the tens of thousands. Solar and efficiency, and electric vehicles and heat pumps, can save money over time... serving as viable annuities. Robert presents his own home savings, now well over $60,000... money that he and his wife put into their son's college education.

Robert describes the courses that he teaches for Southern California Edison. For the past ten years Robert has taught a course on building electrification, with invaluable lessons for architects, engineers, and lay people. They learn how to keep costs down while eliminating fossil fuels. A new course focuses on how to avoid costly panel upgrades through sophisticated controls and smart energy management, despite adding loads such as heat pumps and electric vehicles.

Georges Dyer is the Co-Founder and Executive Director of the Intentional Endowments Network (IEN), a non-profit, peer-learning network that helps endowed institutions make their endowments socially responsible. Of the 3,500 - 4,000 colleges and universities in America, some 2,000 have endowments that are valued at ~$900 billion in aggregate. These academic institutions -- as well as asset management firms, cultural institutions, museums, faith-based organizations, non-profit foundations, and others -- also have a similar value in retirement funds... which while highly regulated, are also being directed towards socially responsible and profitable investments.

Georges explains the genesis of IEN. Spurred by the president of Hampshire College, Jonathan Lash, IEN was originally formed to help institutions divest from fossil-fueled industries that were counter to their climate action plans. Student and faculty concerns really started to press on endowment portfolios in 2013. Today, IEN works with some 250 endowments. Ted asks the bottom line question early: How are these endowments performing? Are they losing money, or are they on par, or are they ahead? Georges explains that on balance, they are at par or better.

IEN provides a number of tools and resources for its members.. from virtual and in-person "convenings," to benchmarking tools, case studies, and more. The network provides insights and negative screening tools to weed out investments that run counter to an institution's mission and goals, while highlighting positive investment opportunities to reduce risk and steer institutions towards profitable investments in the green economy.

The conversation shifts to case studies of "platinum" members: Georges discusses leading institutions including the University of California system and Arizona State University. He discusses how some institutions have found means to invest in their own facilities... for instance solar projects and facility upgrades that make dollars and cents while addressing inequality and other social issues. Georges sites the Rockefeller Brothers Fund as a shining example. Born of oil and gas and fossil fuels, Rockefeller has been a leading example of an organization whose Standard Oil roots are now focused on "intentional investments" with highly positive performance.

For more on IEN and its mission and results, check out Georges' new podcast, "The Future of Finance."

Dr. Jason Huang is the co-founder and CEO of TS Conductors, a firm that manufacturers advanced conductors for electric utilities. The TS conductors, or transmission lines, carry up to three times as much power as conventional transmission lines (wires). They also cut power line losses by up to one half, often at a negative marginal cost... meaning they cost less than conventional lines and boost capacity. Jason explains that given today's thirst for power for data centers, building and mobility electrification, these conductors are critical in maintaining U.S. competitiveness in global markets, while providing critical services for renewable power generation.

Jason explains that the power sector is very conservative, working diligently to provide safe and reliable transmission services. Many utilities are using 120-year old transmission technology... while others are using "advances" that are 50+ years old. TS Conductors uses a combination of carbon fiber cores, which double their strength and weigh 80% less, with encapsulated aluminum conductors. Through TS Conductors, utilities can invest in the future... restringing power lines at lower costs and faster than using traditional technologies.

For years, utility transmission lines have been constrained by sagging in high heat and swaying in high winds. Many lines have to be derated in extreme heat events, times when utilities need the power the most. To add more capacity, utilities have had to make towers taller and to add towers. TS Conductors allows utilities to refurbish their transmission corridors and expand their power capacity without costly tower replacements. More important than the lower costs are avoiding permitting for new transmission corridors, processes that can take more than 12 years. In one case, TS Conductors were used in Montana, cutting CAPEX costs 40% and shortening the project schedule to provide means to bring wind farms' power to market by 12 months.

The conversation concludes with a look at the massive potential and market for advanced conductors. There are nearly a million circuit miles in America, and many more millions of conductor miles given three-phase configurations. And the conductors can be used for 18 million+ distribution lines as well. For the United States to be competitive in the global AI market, and to boost sustainability, TS Conductors offers a win-win solution.

Joyce Coffee heads up Climate Resilience Consulting, advising cities and states and others on resilience to climate change. She explains to Ted that she learned early on in Chicago, that the impacts of climate change can be unpredictable and fierce. After 750 souls there lost their lives there in a heat wave, mostly black and brown citizens, she knew that she was going to focus on adaptation, and making people more resilient to the ravages of climate change.

Joyce grew up in Colorado and then moved to the East Coat for her education at Tufts -- to focus on public health -- and then MIT where she was a student of Urban Studies and Planning. She talks about her first career step, working for an engineering firm that worked on the Three Gorges Dam project in China. The firm was helping China leap from a second world country to a first world country. Joyce's work surrounded relocating well over a million people whose land would be flooded by the dam. That prepared her for advocacy of relocating communities and towns to steer clear of the most threatening aspects of climate change.

Ted and Joyce dig in on adaptation, a sorry reality. Why not cut greenhouse gases and avoid the need for adaptation? Joyce's climate action planning in Chicago made clear that even a city with a progressive mayor and populous, was falling short of its climate goals. Like it or not, citizens there -- and globally -- will have to adapt to rising CO2. Thus for nearly ten years, Joyce's firm has been providing consulting for cities and states... helping them prepare for floods, fires, droughts, windstorms, coastal inundation, and sea level rise.

The conversation shifts to the brand-new guide that Climate Resilience Consulting has developed for small businesses. Sadly, one in three small businesses in climate change events have suffered financial losses. Data confirms that 26% of small businesses have resilience plans and fully 94% feel that they are prepared. But in areas ravaged by climate change events, 40% of small businesses are forced out of business. Not good. Joyce explains as small businesses employ half of all American workers and contribute 40% of our nation's gross domestic product.

By helping small businesses -- with a practical guide complete with checklists and AI prompts - they can be more profitable, able to fare far better than ill-prepared others. They also "bounce back" more quickly... having moved to higher ground, or away from extreme fire risk areas. They are part of what Joyce calls the solution set... ripe with innovation and smarts in determining how to get "more crop for the drop," and formulating new kinds of exterior house paint that is more resistant to wildfires. Joyce gets great satisfaction in helping business and communities prepare for and reap the benefits of her grandmother's oft-stated view that "a stitch in time saves nine."

Henk van Alphen was born and raised in Holland. After serving in the army, he sought adventure and travelled to Canada where he and his girlfriend took a float plane into the wilderness, built a cabin, hunted and fished, and lived off the land for a year. It took them seven days to walk back into civilization. Henk then went to college in Canada and began to work part time for a mining operation. His wilderness experience was a perfect match for the needs of mining developers who relied on "grubstakers" to trek into the wild, searching for mineral deposits to develop mines.

Henk's career in mining began in Canada, and then led him to extensive works in Argentina, Chile, and other South American countries. He was agnostic about what minerals he sought to develop... working with coal, iron ore, gold, silver, copper, zinc, uranium, and ultimately lithium. He discusses the process of developing mine sites... noting his style and business model of working collaboratively with indigenous populations, making them part of the process which ultimately led to longer term successes.

The conversation then shifts to lithium mining. Henk discusses where lithium is found - in brine, clay, and pegmatites - and how it is mined. His work involved extracting lithium from brine in "salars" or drying lakes. This was not well received because in arid countries, solar evaporation of the brine wastes precious water... so he and his colleagues have focused on DLE or Direct Lithium Extraction.

Ted and Henk discuss the value of lithium, a mineral at the core of the clean energy revolution. Henk is articulate about the role of lithium in electric vehicles, and in laptops and cellphones. He notes China's preeminence in this field. While other battery chemistries are being examined, Henk notes that advances in lithium batteries are extending EV's range, making EVs clear winners in the automotive future. And he posits that lithium will be with us for some time even if other chemistries are promising and may ultimately replace lithium. That will be, he jokes, when he is six feet under!

Ted Flanigan first met Gene Rodrigues in 1998. Ted was Director of Efficiency Solutions at LADWP; Gene the Director of Energy Efficiency at Southern California Edison. For years, Gene was the voice and the face of energy efficiency, his sincere and happy demeanor on local television in the evenings. Ted and Gene begin with a reflection that Ted recounted of Gene's mother making sure that Gene knew that every morning that he had a choice about the day ahead. She made clear that you have the choice to be happy and productive each day.

Gene was born in Japan to a U.S. serviceman and a Japanese mother. He grew up in Arizona before getting his law degree. In short order he realized that he wanted his law to be important, to make a difference to our society. He applied that vision to his work in regulatory law at Southern California Edison. He became Director of Efficiency, a role that expanded to include distributed energy resources of all kinds.

The conversation shifts to Gene's deep appreciation for the field of efficiency... what he calls a foundational element for every utility to boost reliability and local economic development, to cut consumer costs and increase affordability, while protecting the environment at least cost. Gene stressed that California did it right, aligning good business sense with environmental concerns, and meeting the needs of all stakeholders. Calling it a group effort in California, he saluted leaders, John Bryson, Mike Peevey, Ralph Cavanagh, and Art Rosenfeld. They were successful in defining the role of efficiency. Gene explains that it's not a soft customer service, but part of the make-up of a reliable energy system.

Gene left Edison in 2014 to work for the consulting firm ICF, noting that it was a company whose "moral compass was facing due north." When reflecting on his work there in the ICF Clean Energy division, Gene notes that he is most proud of the collaborations that he helped seed and nurture in meetings of cohorts. He found those forums most impactful.

The conversation ends with a discussion of Gene's tenure at the U.S. Department of Energy where he served the Biden/Harris administration as Assistant Secretary of Energy in the Office of Electricity. While the DOE's Forrestal Building is stark, formidable, and intimidating, Gene stressed that he found the staff there to be the most committed group he has every worked with. His heart aches for the current administration's policy to decimate the role of these non-political, career servants. So then, asked Ted, "Are you optimistic?" Gene said no, he is not optimistic about the current changes, but he commented that when he was appointed, he was confirmed by a voice vote of unanimous consent, representing both sides of the aisle. Gene said, those on the R side are still there. While they knew that Gene came from a deep green background, importantly, they understood his common sense approach to energy management. And they are still there.

​Rebecca Tickell is an actor, singer, writer, producer, and environmental activist. Born in Ohio in a farming community, her roots are deep in agriculture. After moving to Vermont with her mother, at nine years old she became a movie star, playing a leading role in the Christmas-classic Prancer. She was instantly famous, appearing on the Today show and the Tonight show, among others. From that early age, she knew that she wanted to be a storyteller, using films to reach the masses.

After a start in Hollywood, and a role in a horror film, Rebecca knew that she wanted to focus on films that make a difference. After seeing Al Gore's Inconvenient Truth, it became clear to her that she wanted to tell stories about the ravages of climate change and ways to save the Earth. Working with her husband Josh, they have produced over 20 climate-conscious films... reaching some 2 billion people.

Their first films focused on oil... its devastating impacts... made crystal clear by their documentary on the Deepwater Horizon oil rig explosion in the Gulf of Mexico. Filming the accident poisoned Rebecca and solidified her commitment to caring for the planet.

Influenced by a colleague, they shifted from oil to soil, highlighting the great value of soil in carbon sequestration. Paul Hawken's Project Drawdown influenced Rebecca. By caring for the soil through regenerative agriculture, Hawken stated that the teraton of carbon that humans have released to the atmosphere since the industrial revolution could be captured. She and Josh then bought a farm in Ventura County to practice what they preached.

Rebecca discusses the basic tenets of regenerative agriculture, and how it can not only boost production, but address the vast areas of land globally that have been desertified. Their award-winning and broadly revered films -- Kiss the Soil and Common Ground -- have been rooted in rebuilding the soil. And they highlight successes, more profitable forms of agriculture, a greater diversity of products able to withstand droughts, fires, and flood. Farmers are finding that eliminating herbicides, pesticides, insecticides, and fungicides can save them $400 an acre... helping them break out of the vicious farming cycle of loans and risk and unhealthy produce.

Today, Rebecca notes that about 5% of American agriculture is based on the principles of regeneration,. But this is ten times what it was five years ago... and projections suggest that 10% of American farming will be regenerative in the next few years. This is the tipping point... when the forces of logic in agriculture become unstoppable, both domestically and worldwide.

Healthy soils lead to healthy food, which leads to healthy people. Our health, Rebecca makes clear, is a reflection of the health of our soil. The health of our guts is a reflection of the health of the microorganisms in our soil. This will happen acre by acre, inch by inch. For more information and to download Rebecca's films, visit bigpictureranch.com.

Clean Power Alliance is in its eighth year serving cities and unincorporated areas in Los Angeles and Ventura counties, providing power to over one million electric meters in 35 cities and county areas with a generating capacity of 3,400 MW. This episode of Flanigan's Eco-Logic features Ted Bardacke who has been its CEO throughout this tenure... creating the nation's largest community choice aggregator. CPA is also the nation's largest clean energy provider, and has been for the past two years. Its annual sales of 10 - 11 TWh, make it the fourth largest power provider in the State of California. Recently, it eclipsed San Diego Gas and Electric in power sales.

Ted explains that CPA provides three tiers of rates, important choices for its members: About 10%of its members have selected its Lean Power rates, pricing that is about 2% less than the rates offered by Southern California Edison (SCE). Another 25% have selected the Clean Power rates that are equal in price but a better environmental product. Two-thirds of its members are on the 100% Green Power rate, paying about 6% more than they would if they were still buying power from SCE. These choices have been key to CPA's remarkably low opt-out rate (and its 93% participation rate)... meaning that members are pleased with the CPA products and have for largely have not returned to SCE.

CPA is now mature and offering a suite of programs that enhance its services. Ted explains that there are two types of programs: CPA offers programs for its member agencies that feature resilience for critical facilities as well as up to $250,000 grants for building electrification. CPA also offers a suite of customer programs... things like incentives for advanced battery energy storage and EV charger incentives. By working closely with its board of directors, Ted explains that CPA's services are locally rooted, and that CPA has a fine-grained understanding of its customers' needs.

The conversation then shifts to the current presidential administration's decrees... retarding wind and solar. Fortunately CPA "resourced" its portfolio of green power early and at relatively low cost, putting the CCA in a strong financial position. But Ted explains that there is no question that the administration is changing the market for renewables... with less tax credits, policies making it harder to permit renewables, and the effects of tariffs on supply lines. Without question, these changes are impacting the "ecosystem" supporting renewables... making it harder for customers to "do the right thing" to control costs and drive down emissions. Ted notes that "California will do a good job of holding this ecosystem together" though "there will be some backsliding.'

When asked about next steps for CPA, Ted flags directions including refining and expanding programs, exploring asset ownership, and working with customers to make them co-managers of electrification. Just as Californians have and will respond to water shortages, Ted wants CPA to lead a cultural shift such that electricity consumers are active participants.... driving down costs and emissions for all.