Andrew Rothman, the Wildlife Campaigns Director at Environment America (EA), had good and timely news: He is pleased to report that just this morning, the U.S. Congress approved an extension to the pilot program that has funded 35 wildlife crossings projects in America. The six-year extension will bring $1.2 million through the Department of Transportation to local planning efforts and infrastructure to protect wildlife and motorists.

Education and advocacy are key parts of Andrew's job, in this case EA's efforts culminating in favorable public policy. The crossings solve two problems: wildlife deaths and motorist accidents. This additional funding will support all manner of crossing forms, be they smaller structures, or modifications to existing bridges and underpasses, or culvert widening for terrestrial and aquatic species.

"How did you choose glom onto wildlife?" Andrew describes his early roots: his family cabin in the north woods of Wisconsin, the Burgess books that impressed him with stories for children about wildlife. As he got older, he focused on rain forests and their wonton destruction for beef production. To combat that habitat destruction he formed the non-profit Rainforest Biodiversity Group in college, something that continues to this day. And he explains, the need is great.
World Wildlife and the Zoological Society of London have reported that North America has lost 40% of species of wildlife since 1970, due in large part to habitat loss, but also to pollution and toxins.

Andrew is credited with having created Latin America's first bird tourism trail. By doing so, he found the means to allow fellow birders to witness some of Central America's most interesting birds... including the endangered Green Great Macaw. Birding trails were a natural addition to ecotourism in countries like Costa Rica. They tapped into existing lodges in remote sites. And through bird tourism, Andrew enabled local farmers to care for their livelihoods while doing better for conservation.

Back in the States, Andrew has been a spokesperson and advocate for wildlife. He spent 11 years at the American Bird Conservancy. He has lectured extensively and written articles and papers. One discussed in the podcast is his paper on the impacts of fighter jet training on wildlife, including test bombings with practice munitions. Andrew explains that much of this has taken place in the American Southwest. He and others have worked to change military policies, for instance regulating training altitudes to protect wildlife.

Andrew is new to Environment America and is excited about the organization's work and strategies. Just how does EA prioritize its funding? Andrew notes the breadth and width of the threats to wildlife. He notes that EA is pragmatic, only taking on campaigns that have a good chance of success. He discusses EA's canvass that exists to this day and that surveys neighborhoods to inform and guide its policies and research directions. Much of EA's funding is grass roots... small denominations that collectively are critical to wildlife across America. For those interested in chipping in, see EnvironmentAmerica.org.

Amanda Begley is the Associate Director for Watershed Health at TreePeople, one of LA's largest and most influential non-profits. TreePeople is now 52 years old, originally founded by Andy Lipkis to plant trees to absorb pollution and clean the air. Amanda explains that her nature-based work with watershed health is a reflection of Andy's message of creating functioning community forests to heal the severed cycles of nature. Trees are at the core of effective watershed management, increasing the quality of life in urban environments.

Amanda explains how watershed management integrates activities within a common area of land that drains to body of water. It's about "basins of relations," the trees, water, soil, people, and all sorts of activities. On behalf of TreePeople, Amanda guides this process in the Santa Clara watershed. She's an educator, a connector between communities and their needs, developing projects for water supply and water quality and community benefit.

Thanks to Los Angeles County's 2018 Measure W, LA's nine watersheds are taking new approaches. Instead of allowing an inch of rain in LA to wash the streets into the sea, releasing 3.5 billions of gallons of polluted water in to the Pacific Ocean, Amanda her colleagues are working to retain the water in the upper reaches of the watersheds for multiple benefits, creating more green space, shade, cleaner air, more habitat for birds and pollinators.

When queried about what homeowners can do, Amanda recommends simple measures such as diverting downspouts so rainwater can be used to water trees and shrubs. Yes, there was a time, when stormwater management was all about channeling water to the sea to avoid dangerous flooding. But now there are better solutions... ways to capture precious fresh water and to use it to green our communities.

Much of TreePeople's work has been in "upper watersheds," providing mountain restoration after fires. She and her team have been replanting native plants and restoring the biological functions of that land. Measure W funding has three goals: refilling "water savings accounts" (aquifers), promoting water quality, and community enhancement, be it new parks, less concrete, green and complete streets, more trees, gardens, habitat, and more. Measure W provides $280 million each year to fund projects that make local sense. LA is a national leader in this regard.

The best example of watershed health in LA? Amanda highlights the South Gate Urban Orchard Park that recently opened in a tough, industrialized area of Los Angeles. Now there is an oasis there with clean water feeding avocado and citrus orchards, community gardens and native plants. There are trails for hiking and a play area for kids inspired by local tribal partners. "We can do this," she says, proving that we can create spots in LA's intense urban infrastructure that feel restorative. LA gets a bad rap of being divorced from nature, but Amanda sees it differently, that we are blessed to be here nestled between the ocean and mountains, a vibrant community now bolstered by thoughtful watershed management.

Kari Hammerschlag has spent the past 30 years promoting healthy food. She's been advocating for healthy farming practices and working with schools and institutions to serve healthy food. As the Deputy Director for Food and Agricultural Policy at Friends of the Earth (FOE), she is passionate and clear: For years, our federal government has bowed to the wishes of agribusinesses and the agrochemical industry. This year is even worse, with the current administration not only rolling back EPA funding, but working to streamline new pesticide approvals, and beyond that... launching PR campaigns to promote the safety of these chemicals, misinforming the public.

The vast majority of Americans want healthy food. Polls show that 80% do. And while many are very concerned about the chemicals going into our food, our government is at odds with this strong majority. Even Robert F Kennedy Jr's Make America Healthy Again (MAHA) campaign is contradictory to federal policy. An effort that was begun to promote healthy food, MAHA has been coopted and conflicted... resulting in funds being stripped away from small farms, organic and regenerative agriculture, and instead being used to support big business.

Kari notes that 60 - 70 chemicals used by U.S. farms today are banned in the countries where they are manufactured. The Chinese make Paraquat but have banned its use in China and instead ship it to America. That's just one issue. Meanwhile, the United States is losing 60 farms a day due to labor issues, climate change and weather, not to mention tariffs that are hurting small and big farms. We are up against "corporate controlled food," explains Kari.

Kari makes clear the connection between agriculture and climate change. Working for Environmental Working Group some years ago, Kari wrote the "Meat Eaters Guide to Climate Change and Health." In it, she advocates "diet shift." In the case of meat, she suggests, if you eat it... eat less and use the savings to make sure that the meat that you buy is healthy. Food factory meat is laced with antibodies and growth hormones. Fatty tissues in meat accumulate toxins like dioxins.

Later in the discussion, Ted asks Kari what we each of us can do. She smiles and simulates eating a forkful of food, making clear that we each control what we eat. We can choose to eat organic. We can support local farms through farmers' markets. We can ask our local supermarkets and restaurants where our food is sourced. But Kari explains that we can't solve the food issue just by changing our consumption patterns. She emphasizes that we also need to get engaged in the policy arena: Join organizations like FOE, she says, and reach out to our politicians with this simple message: We want healthy food.

Jigar Shah is the first person to be on Flanigan's Eco-Logic three times. Ted digs right into his current work at Multiplier, his new firm focused on advising clean energy startups to navigate financing and operational challenges. Jigar talks about "exits" and helping entrepreneurs determine the best time and way to sell their companies so that their innovations can scale.

The clean tech sector has never been more relevant, he notes. The solutions that entrepreneurs are creating are meeting needs of the country... but not the financial needs that these entrepreneurs deserve. Yes, they are doing well at decarbonizing the energy system, but not doing well in terms of financial rewards. Thus Multiplier is helping management teams get better compensation.

Ted asks about the impact that the current administration is having on clean tech. Is the sky falling? Good news: Jigar makes clear that stock market returns do not suggest so. In fact, he reports that stock values for clean tech have been "off the charts" for the last seven months. Trump's bad-mouthing clean tech seems to be helping the clean tech sector.

The conversation shifts to Jigar's service for the country. "It was terrifically rewarding for me," he reported, as he carried out a clear set of objectives to forge a functioning partnership between the public and private sectors that did not exist in Obama administration nor the first Trump administration. Instead our government has been subtly telling companies that are scaling up American innovations to go to China, India, Malaysia, and other countries. Now U.S. companies are scaling up and doing so in Texas and Tennessee and other states.

Jigar was at the helm of a "more muscular" Loan Programs Office (LPO). Its funding was ramped up from $40 billion to $400 billion. During Jigar's tenure, the LPO committed $108 billion.. and closed deals for $61 billion. Most of the $400 billion war chest is still there. Furthermore, Jigar states that the One Big Beautiful Bill promoted and passed by Trump is actually the largest largest climate bill ever. While it prematurely phased out solar and electric vehicle tax credits, it left in place production tax credits as well as tax credits for geothermal, nuclear, hydrogen, carbon capture, and batteries through 2034. It left the LPO with loan authority for advanced transmission projects, new nuclear, and new geothermal.

For all the hand-wringing which is real... Jigar reports that there is still potential for the U.S. government to be a partner with private sector to compete with China in clean tech. Loans made under Biden with lithium-ion for example, have promoted the highest quality ores... so much so that the U.S. can be net exporter by 2034. Furthermore, the Trump administration knows that if they continue to restrict and confuse LPO applicants that it will be impossible for the LPO to support the nuclear industry.

Jigar is crystal clear that the Trump administration has declared ware on the solar and wind industry. But we are now a nation that knows how to build solar and wind. It's what we have built for the past five years, not natural gas and certainly not coal for which the supply chain does not exist. He is calm and clear: "Cooler heads will prevail" and we will continue to meet the moment to power AI with renewables and to navigate the misinformation presented by the current administration.

Jigar strongly believes that the solar and wind industries need to be more proactive in creating a culture that makes clear that solar and wind is doing good for our country. The oil and gas industries have done a good job doing so, supporting Fourth of July parades, Boy Scout troops, etc. Now solar and wind need to do better, to move beyond the moniker of alternatives... and taking full responsibility for the power system using grid enhancing technologies paired with conventional baseload resources as well as batteries and small modular reactors.

The interview ends with a discussion of Jigar's most memorable moments in DC. He mentions Easter Egg hunts in the Rose Garden with his son, taking his wife to certain events. But most off all, he is proud of having convinced hundreds of colleagues to join the federal government and to getting them to believe that serving in the government is a noble cause. He got the nation's best and brightest to serve, helping to make sure that the United States not only invents, but also scales up, clean energy technologies domestically and with our allies.

Ralph Bianculli explains that it all began in the late 1990s. He was a paper and plastics industry executive and wanted to change the trajectory of wastes. He recounts about that era... marked by incessant foam coffee cups and all manner of single-use disposables. Now he manufacturers and sells 370+ products... all of which are made from natural, organic materials, and all of which are easily composted. Today, his company can boast about major, positive environmental impacts.... avoiding the use of 43 million pounds of plastics, keeping 7.7 million kg of CO2 from being released into the atmosphere, and he has saved over a half million trees... not to mention 74 million pounds of landfill waste.

Ralph recounts his prior career in the food service industry, at odds with the planet. "I was part of the problem," he laments, and he wanted to change that. He had a rude awakening traveling the world where he recognized that other countries were well ahead of us in adapting to the functionality of products and disposables. America was relentless using virgin materials then and throwing them away.

Emerald Ecovation's product portolio today covers food service compostables, facility supplies, janitorial products, and packaging materials. The company is providing "everyday essentials" for institutions of all kinds, from major Fortune 500 companies to cruise lines, universities, hospitals, and more. It is an aggregator of raw materials, different types of fiber materials such as bagasse, wheat, and miscanthus... a fast-growing grass. "We create formulations for finished goods," and license manufacturers with 48 factories around the world. Ralph explains that the company's path has been painful at times, but more so exciting, for instance finding new uses for miscanthus in pet and equestrian bedding. Clay is used in packaging materials instead of plastics and is readily compostable.

An important part of Emerald Ecovation's work is educating its buyers and suppliers about lifecycle analysis of products used and made. To do so, Ralph formed the Emerald Sustainability Institute (ESI). Let's use trees as an example: Ralph explains that they sequester 18% of the carbon on the planet and at same time give off oxygen. Trees are the lungs of the planet and thus need to be revered, certainly not wasted. All of Emerald's suppliers are ESA certified and ESA now has over over 2,000 graduates.

Emerald also helps its customers meet their Environmental, Social, and Governance (ESG) goals, The Environmental Impact Reports that Emerald provides present clear metrics, giving all stakeholders solid indexes of what they are accomplishing by shifting to eco-friendly products and practices. Emerald boasts being the only tree-free paper producer and it is serving 1.2 million clients a day. It is putting farmers to work. Its mission is move past recycling. Its organic materials are formed into products, go into its composting systems, and 24 hours later come our as organic soil.

Dr. Jon Creyts is the CEO of Rocky Mountain Institute (RMI) and joins Ted from RMI's Innovation Center in Basalt, Colorado... high in the Rocky Mountains. The Center "sails on the sun" Jon explains, a net positive building that produces more energy than it consumes... demonstrating off-the-shelf, cost-effective technologies. He calls is an emblem of what we can do... even in the cold of high mountain Colorado winters.

Ted asks what Jon is most proud of. In his 15-year tenure at RMI, three as CEO, the Institute has grown 10x in size, and arguably in stature making the world better RMI is leading the global energy transformation, and Jon is amazed by the change RMI is producing... operating in more than 50 countries... from promoting sustainable concrete production, to working with fleets of heavy duty trucks and demonstrating electric drive trains, fuel cells, and super efficient biofuels, to a rooftop solar pilot in India, to green steel standards for Chinese factories selling to European markets, to electrifying agriculture in Africa.

Jon discusses RMI's founder, Amory Lovins, and his guidance.. and his hugely optimistic and pragmatic notion of "applied hope," a term Amory coined years ago.. a vision that coupled with a little muscle... has been key to willing change into existence. For RMI's 650 staff and partnerships network collaborators, focusing on efficiency first and then market-based solutions, applied hope "unites us" explains Jon.

The conversation then shifts to a global perspective on the clean energy transition. Jon makes clear that it has not bee derailed by the current presidential administration. China is leading the charge, with 3 GW of solar being installed each day, half of its new cars sold are electric, and RMI believes that China is now past peak CO2 emissions. China has proven that a country can decouple carbon emissions and economic growth. And other countries such as India and Australia are on similar trajectories... every country surging in the transition. Jon emphasizes that 80% of the world is unlocking the economic opportunities of clean energy at scale. While the transition is "messy," Jon makes clear that it is happening faster than many of us thought it would.

That said, there is still tremendous energy waste in our global economy... some $2 trillion a year. This constitutes low-hanging fruit... economic opportunity indeed to fuel the transition. Jon presents a powerful and optimistic view, making clear that the long-term arc of history is bending toward efficiency, renewables, and sustainability.

Jon then turns a bit "nerdy" and provides an example of RMI's focus on new and exciting technologies, featuring a roof coating that repels heat, wicking heat away from buildings and sending long wavelengths of heat back into space. This is known as passive daytime radiative cooling and has tremendous global promise. Through radiative cooling coatings -- developed for aerospace initially -- our global society can offset the great need for additional cooling resulting from climate change.

Jon concludes with his focus for RMI at the upcoming COP-30 conference in Brazil... where he and others will focus on how to strengthen power grids worldwide... so critical to electrifying mobility and industry, and bringing renewables to the fore. He will also focus on RMI's work with decarbonizing hard-to-reach subsectors such as steel, cement, and chemicals.

At Ted's prompting, he ends with a few notes on balance and his passion for music. He travels the world with a guitar and takes time each evening to unwind and to find time for solace and quiet and harmony... essential ingredients for us all as we work the challenge of transforming the global energy economy for the benefit of all.

Tom Szaky's journey is fascinating, one of extreme innovation. His firm, TerraCycle, recycles ~400 different products and materials. Ted asks right off the bat, "Do you really recycle soiled diapers, cigarette butts, shoes, juice pouches, and chewing gum?" Tom quickly makes clear that everything can be recycled... at a cost. He has clearly used his ingenuity to develop revenue streams, for instance, support from tobacco companies that want to address littered butts and disposable diaper companies seeking to gain public support through their commitment to recycling. He also goes to where the supplies of recyclable are... for instance, daycares and senior homes for soiled diapers.

Tom's family fled from Hungary after the Chernobyl nuclear accident. As a young man in Toronto, Canada, he and his father watched a large television being thrown away. TVs are coveted items in Hungary, Tom explains. They took it home... and it worked... in color! Tom was struck by the throw-away society in North America and has devoted his career to recycling things other than paper, plastic, cans, and bottles. These are already profitable. It's the rest of the waste stream that needs attention.

Tom began his recycling work at college at Princeton. He organized and composted food service wastes there.... deep into vermiculture (worms). He left school to take this on full time... from food wastes to compost to sales in Europe and in America to major companies including Kroger and Walmart. Today he has a staff of 400 and is working across the country and internationally. Tom highlights re-use... even better than recycling. With Asics shoes, TerraCycle is taking old foam and other materials from spent shoes. Then Asics is using that "raw" materials for a line of its shoes.

He spun off the TerraCycle Foundation to support ocean clean-ups. His foundation has been working in Thailand on upstream waste collection... in rivers and canals before the waste washes into the oceans. So far, that work has resulted in 3.2 million pounds of material. Meanwhile Tom was writing four books, hosting a television show, growing his companies' impacts, and with his wife raising a family with four kids. He has been recognized by the United Nations and by Time and Fortune magazines for his innovation and sustainability impact. His reward, he notes, is "running a purposeful business."

Controlled Environment Agriculture (CEA) produces less than 1% of all food in America, and consumes more energy than all open-field agriculture in the country. According to Ted's guest Dr. Evan Mills, CEA could increase and consume some 7% of national energy use... more than data centers, all enclosed malls, air travel, cement making, or chemical production. These findings are the highlight's of Evan's recent research paper titled, "The Emergence of Indoor Agriculture as a Driver of Global Energy Demand." Cultivating crops in mechanized greenhouses and windowless plant factories is a big deal. The paper is a "meta-analysis" of 116 publications that document CEA practices involving 23 crops grown in 154 locations in 40 countries plus Antarctica.

Evan puts CEA in context: For the past 10,000 years, agriculture has been almost exclusively outdoors. Early experiences with growing food indoors dates back to the Roman Empire when the Emperor had his melons grown in greenhouses glazed with translucent stones. In the 1450s, Koreans grew some crops in heated greenhouses. But it wasn't until the 1960s that CEA took off in countries like Norway, Sweden, Russia, Japan, and Iceland... largely in cold climates where fresh vegetables are not available in the depths of winter. The research includes Inuit villages in Canada and other "extreme CEA" at the poles.

Evan discusses types of CEA facilities: Some are low-tech, open greenhouses. Others are closed, windowless structures. No soil, no rain, no wind, etc. They use energy for lighting, heating, cooling, dehumidification, snow melting, refrigeration, and soil streaming. This energy use allows year-round, multi-crop farming of crops including lettuce, tomatoes, herbs, leafy greens, cucumbers, and micro-greens. Of all CEA crops, Evan explains, cannabis is the most energy intensive... demanding 23,200 megajoules/kilogram of marketable weight. This compares with an average of 78 MJ/kG for other plant factories. Being the largest US cash crop, cannabis can afford the costs of that level of energy intensity. Its energy use results in CO2 emissions equivalent to 10 million cars.

The discussion digs into how to make CEA more efficient. Barriers are discussed -- cost, finance, lack of knowledge, skepticism, etc. -- as well as opportunities for increased efficiency including more efficient lighting, glazings, and heating practices... as well as decreasing the photoperiod and varying "fertigation" techniques. Root zone cooling has been experimented with in the United Arab Emirates. Later, Evan comments that trying to make CEA more efficient "is like optimizing the suboptimal."

Evan and Ted discuss claims that CEA is more sustainable that conventional agriculture: "It uses less land, it requires less transport of food crops, it is more resilient." Each are debunked. And major companies such as General Mills, Google, GE, GTE, and Sylvania all made attempts with CEA... and all backed out given the unattractive economics of the practice. Consider this, noted Evan: Growing enough protein for one adult for an entire year, if done with CEA, requires as much energy (16 MWh) as an all-electric home with two electric vehicles. That's a lot of power. The conversation ends with Ted asking Evan for his views on CEA. Is it ever appropriate? Yes, in certain applications and certain locations it is... if done efficiently, of course. Final point made by Evan: Conventional agriculture has tremendous opportunities for greater efficiency as well.

Dr. Evan Mills is a retired Senior Scientist at the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory and a Research Affiliate at the Energy and Resources Group at the University of California at Berkeley.