Two visions of tokenization (the practice of representing real-world assets) are competing in real time, and only one of them delivers on the $19 trillion forecast for the category.

The walled-garden version, where every major bank tokenizes its own deposits inside its own four walls, mostly produces press releases because it dresses up an existing database with blockchain language. The permissionless version is the one where BlackRock's tokenized treasury fund (BUIDL) just landed on Uniswap, where someone in Argentina can hold Nvidia stock from a wallet, and where private credit finally gets a marketplace it has never had — and it is the only one that actually rewires market structure.

Episode 05 of Money Moves is about how to tell those two apart… and why the answer is mostly a legal rewiring, not a technical one.

Money Moves is a weekly conversation about the technologies rebuilding the global financial system. Stablecoins, tokenization, private credit, market structure, prediction markets, and what generative AI is doing to capital.

Three hosts, three vantage points. Dave Sutter builds the rails: he built one of the first Bitcoin wallets in the App Store, was an executive at Centre, the joint venture behind USDC, and now runs stablecoin infrastructure for global fintechs. Ian Epstein builds the markets that run on them: a decade running his own book as a senior portfolio manager at one of the best performing macro funds of its era, now co-CEO of Profitr. Samantha Lewis funds both, investing at Mercury Fund at the point where these worlds meet.

Two kinds of episodes. Deep dives are the three of them taking one question all the way down. Most weeks a guest joins who sees a piece of it none of the three can see alone: a founder, an allocator, a regulator, or someone who thinks the hosts have it wrong.

Made for people who work in finance and want the mechanism, not the marketing. No hype, no maximalism, no financial advice.

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