Six years ago Pastor Tim Kurtz and host Rolland Wright had two conversations that ended up in the ReGenesis archives. This year they reconnected. Both men are still walking the same road. In this fresh conversation, Tim and Rolland open up about the last six years — what they have watched with believers who tried to leave and could not, believers who did and paid the cost, and what they have learned about what Ekklesia actually is. And just as importantly, what it is not. They walk Tim's Ephesians 4 class where he asked what is the work of ministry?

They walk the Israel-out-of-Egypt pattern. They walk the doulos question. And Rolland closes with Luke 5:39 — the line nobody preaches after the wineskins parable. We are not mad at church folks. Part 2 continues next week.

You'll hear:

• The reunion — how Tim and Rolland reconnected six years after the archive conversations

• Why the church mindset is more powerful than either man realized

• Tim's honest admission — the pageantry still pulls at him sometimes

• Rolland's parallel admission from his own music-ministry background

• Six years of watching believers try to leave — and some going back

• What Yeshua told Peter about the cost of leaving everything

• The Ephesians 4 class where Tim asked what is the work of ministry?

• The bulletin-folding ministry and other things Paul never imagined

• Coming out of Egypt with only slaves for counsel

• Why so many believers turn back to the system

• Not one stone left upon another — Yeshua dismantling a whole system, not just a temple

• The Kings University / TLV translation and community as the term for Ekklesia

• Rolland on King James, the Divine Right of Kings, and the Supremacy of the Crown

• The doulos question — servant, slave, and why Paul used a word English Bibles have softened

• Luke 5:39 — the line nobody preaches after the wineskins parable

• The mutual clarification: We are not mad at church folks

• A preview of Tim's Boots on the Ground initiative — Part 2

Scripture referenced: Matthew 16:18, Matthew 19:27–29 (Peter's what is in this for us?), Ephesians 4, John 4 (the woman at the well), Luke 5:36–39 (the wineskins), Nehemiah (the wall and the divided worship), Exodus (coming out of Egypt), Romans 6 (slaves of righteousness)

Resources

Ekklesia Declared! — https://a.co/d/0fkrigsy Ekklesia Infused! — https://a.co/d/0gdii5A0 Choose Life — https://a.co/d/069OtMTN Choose Life Workbook — https://a.co/d/06vseuNH First Place Ministries Website — https://www.firstplaceministries.com Support the Ministry via PayPal — https://www.paypal.com/donate/?hosted_button_id=82WSYT9FXJ9CY Connect with Caliatra — https://www.facebook.com/Chaplaincaliatra

Guest Resources — Pastor Tim Kurtz Leaving Church, Becoming Ekklesia by Tim Kurtz — [INSERT VERIFIED LINK] No Longer Church As Usual by Tim Kurtz — [INSERT VERIFIED LINK] Tim Kurtz's ministry website — [INSERT VERIFIED LINK]

Also mentioned in this episode:

• Ekklesia Arising by Dean Briggs

• TLV (Tree of Life Version) — Kings University / Jack Hayford collaboration with a Messianic group

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What's Next

Tuesdays — Rolland teaches

Thursdays — Rolland sits down with someone living the Ekklesia lifestyle

Last Wednesday of every month — 30-day overview and what's next

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