In Part 2 of this conversation, co-hosts Phil White and Heidi Schoeneck continue their discussion with Jeffrey Hollender — Founder of Seventh Generation, professor at New York University Stern School of Business, social entrepreneur, and author of Built for a Better World to explore the deeper systems, incentives, and leadership challenges that make responsible business so difficult to sustain.

While Part 1 unpacked Jeffrey’s personal journey building (and eventually losing) Seventh Generation, Part 2 zooms out to examine the broader forces shaping business behavior today: political influence, broken incentives, governance structures, internal culture, and the uncomfortable reality that doing the right thing often still comes with risk.

Jeffrey reflects on the early struggles of Seventh Generation, why the company’s growth accelerated when sustainability became connected to personal health and wellness, and why movements like B Corp still haven’t reached the scale needed to transform business at large.

But perhaps most importantly, this conversation explores the human side of leadership:

Why humility matters more than ego.

Why radical transparency terrifies companies.

And why businesses can’t close the gap between intention and execution without fundamentally changing how they operate.

Built for a Better World explores Jeffrey Hollender’s journey building Seventh Generation and the lessons learned navigating the tension between purpose, profit, leadership, and systemic change. Grab your own copy here: https://jeffreyhollender.net/

Key Takeaways:

• Why business is both a driver of solutions and a major contributor to systemic problems
• The role storytelling and internal culture play in scaling impact
• How market incentives shape whether sustainable businesses succeed or fail
• Why Seventh Generation reframed sustainability around personal health and wellness
• Jeffrey Hollender’s perspective on the B Corp movement
• Why larger corporations still resist accountability and transparency frameworks
• The overlooked business case for sustainability, diversity, and stakeholder governance
• Why humility is essential for responsible leadership
• What “radical transparency” actually looks like inside organizations
• Why purpose-driven businesses struggle when systems still reward short-term profit

Timestamps:

00:00 – Introduction: the deeper systems shaping business behavior

00:45 – Why business is both the solution and part of the problem

01:30 – The role storytelling plays in purpose-driven organizations

02:15 – Why values often collapse under external market pressures

02:50 – How Seventh Generation repositioned sustainability around health and wellness

04:15 – Jeffrey Hollender’s perspective on the B Corp movement

05:10 – Why businesses still struggle to understand the business case for sustainability

06:05 – Diversity, governance, and systems thinking in leadership

06:50 – Words of wisdom for leaders trying to do the right thing

07:15 – Why humility and radical transparency matter more than ever

07:55 – Closing reflections on rebuilding business systems differently

About the Show:

It Shouldn’t Be This Hard is the podcast for leaders, founders, and change-makers reimagining what good business looks like -real conversations, radical ideas, and the belief that purpose and profit can - (and must) coexist.

Additional Resources:

🤖 Meet Gaia, Grounded’s sustainability AI:

https://grounded.world/gaia

🌍 Get Grounded:

https://grounded.world/

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