Paul Haenle and Terah Lyons of JPMorganChase join Emily and Geoff to talk about their recent report on U.S.-China AI competition and what policymakers miss when they only look at the latest AI model benchmarks. They get into the latest uproar over (yet another) capable Chinese AI model, what U.S. industrial policy for AI should look like, and how capital can be allocated amidst rapid technological change and massive geopolitical uncertainty.

Paul Haenle is Managing Director and Head of Asia Pacific (APAC) Policy and Strategic Competitiveness at JPMorganChase, where he leads strategy and external engagement on policy issues critical to the firm’s global competitiveness, including trade and investment, supply chains, technology, and infrastructure.

Terah Lyons is currently a Managing Director and the Global Head of AI and Data Policy at JPMorganChase, where she bridges the Chief Data and Analytics Office and Global Government Relations as a member of both executive teams, drives the company's global strategy, engagement, and positioning on AI, data, and digital policy issues, and support's the Firm's AI governance and responsible AI strategy.

Disclosure: Separate from this podcast, JPMorganChase is a financial supporter of CNAS. As with all of our supporters, we maintain strict intellectual independence and editorial discretion in our research products, including our podcasts. More information on our intellectual independence policy can be found on our website.

Christopher Miller, Chip War Dan Wang, Breakneck: China’s Quest to Engineer the Future Geoffrey Gertz and Emily Kilcrease, Who Will Make Money on AI?, CNAS, May 5, 2026 Michael Cembalest, Patchmageddon: The race to patch software vulnerabilities before zero-day cyber-exploitations proliferate , JPMC, July 2026 JPMorganChase, Beyond the Benchmarks: A Systemic View of U.S.-China AI Competition, May 2026

Neil Shearing, The Fractured Age: How The Return of Geopolitics Will Splinter the Global Economy

David A. Gantz and Tony Payan, The Future of Trade: A North American Perspective

Emily Kilcrease and Geoffrey Gertz, Economic Security in North America: Recommendations for USMCA Review, December 3, 2025

Jamie Tronnes and Emily Kilcrease, “Trump’s Replacement Tariffs Will Have Unintended Consequences for USMCA,” National Review, June 12, 2026

Emily Kilcrease, “Statement for Office of the U.S. Trade Representative Hearing on Section 301 Investigations into Structural Excess Capacity,” May 5, 2026

Josh Kagan joins Emily and Geoff to give the big picture behind recent U.S. tariffs related to forced labor, as well as providing an insider’s view on the future of trade and labor issues. In an area that is often a blind spot for the U.S. national security community, Josh helps explain why labor issues have become central to the U.S. approach on trade. Josh Kagan is Special Counsel at Kelley Drye and previously served as the Assistant United States Trade Representative for Labor Affairs at USTR. USTR, Section 301 Investigation into Forced Labor Washington Post Editorial Board, “Trump tries a new trick to raise tariffs,” June 3, 2026 USTR, “Ambassador Greer Pens Letter to Washington Post Editorial Board in Response to June 3 Editorial” Jamie Tronnes & Emily Kilcrease, “Trump’s Replacement Tariffs Will Have Unintended Consequences for USMCA,”National Review, June 12, 2026 Robert Lighthizer, No Trade Is Free: Changing Course, Taking on China, and Helping America's Workers Michael Beeman, Walking Out: America’s New Trade Policy in the Asia-Pacific and Beyond Sherrod Brown, Myths of Free Trade: Why American Trade Policy Has Failed

Show Notes: Geoffrey Gertz and Eleanor Hume, Invested Allies: How the Private Sector Can Boost U.S.-South Korea Economic Security Cooperation

Sara Schuman joins Emily to debrief on the Trump-Xi summit. She explains why it's OK to have a summit that is light on deliverables, describes how China is viewing its relative strength in the relationship, and outlines what she's looking for in the year ahead. Sara recently joined CNAS as an adjunct senior fellow, after a long career working on China trade issues for the U.S. government. She is also managing director at Beacon Global Strategies, where she leads the firm's international trade practice.

"US Trade Representative Jamieson Greer Talks China Trade," Bloomberg Talks Camille Boullenois, Malcolm Black, and Alessia Caruso, China’s Next-Generation Industrial Policy, U.S. Chamber of Commerce and Rhodium Group Laura Silver and Laura Clancy, "Americans’ views of China have grown somewhat more positive in recent years," Pew Research Center Graham Allison, Destined for War: Can America and China Escape Thucydides's Trap? The White House, "Fact Sheet: President Donald J. Trump Secures Historic Deals with China, Delivering for American Workers, Farmers, and Industry" Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the People's Republic of China, "President Xi Jinping Holds Talks with U.S. President Donald J. Trump"

Earlier this week, Emily hosted Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Investment Security Chris Pilkerton for a live discussion at CNAS.

Investment security has emerged as a central pillar of U.S. national security and foreign policy, with expanding sets of U.S. and partner government policies addressing the national security implications of certain investment flows. The discussion will explore the administration’s perspectives on investment security and its ongoing efforts to both strengthen and streamline investment security programs, as well as how investment security fits into broader U.S. work to manage intensifying geopolitical competition.

You can watch the full event here.