DemocracyNext founder and CEO Claudia Chwalisz returns to the Denizen podcast to explore the intersection of deliberative democracy and artificial intelligence. Here we are particularly interested in how we might crease democratic resilience by leveraging AI to scale deliberative processes. Governance innovation is the AI application we're most enthusiastic about so we're excited to bring this conversation to the Denizen audience.

Claudia and Jenny discuss broader trends of rising autocracy, weakening civil societies, and attacks on basic rights, while situating deliberative democracy as a counterforce to these issues. They explore what aspects of the deliberative process are fundamentally human, giving rise to the limitations and risks of certain applications of AI. They also break down five different ways we can think about scaling deliberative democracy, which enables a more nuanced conversation about the opportunities AI presents. Claudia stresses that technology is not a silver bullet, but must be integrated with the human elements of social and political change.

00:00 Introduction to the Episode

00:32 Meet Claudia Swi: Expert on Deliberative Democracy

00:43 Exploring Deliberative Democracy and AI

00:55 The Importance of Democratic Resilience

03:03 Understanding Populism and Authoritarianism

04:49 Challenges and Limitations of Representative Democracy

08:26 Defining Deliberative Democracy

09:49 The Role of Sortition in Deliberative Processes

13:54 In-Person vs. Virtual Deliberative Processes

23:13 The Human Element in Deliberative Democracy

31:23 How AI Can Support Deliberative Structures

35:18 Exploring Tech-Enabled Trackers and Feedback Loops

35:56 Understanding the Lifecycle of Deliberative Processes

36:27 Defining and Breaking Down 'Scale' in AI and Democracy

37:08 The Five Dimensions of Scaling in Deliberative Democracy

37:19 Scaling Out: Increasing Participation in Deliberative Processes

40:29 AI's Role in Scaling Out and Up

46:24 Scaling Across: Spreading Deliberative Processes

49:37 Scaling Deep: Institutionalizing Deliberative Processes

52:45 Scaling In: Enhancing Quality and Impact

59:56 The Broader Implications of AI and Deliberative Democracy

01:06:03 Concluding Thoughts and Future Directions

Resources:

• DemocracyNext: https://www.demnext.org/
• Five Dimensions of Scaling Democratic Deliberation: With and Beyond AI
• The Populist Signal: Why Politics and Democracy Need to Change, Claudia Chwalisz
• The People's Verdict: Adding Informed Citizen Voices to Public Decision Making, Claudia Chwalisz
• Denizen podcast Citizen's Assemblies episode
• Denizen Citizen's Assemblies overview

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