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What happens when a passing reference in graduate school turns into a decades-long archival investigation?

In this episode, classicist Michele Ronnick shares the remarkable scholarly detective story that led her to recover the life and legacy of William Sanders Scarborough, a formerly enslaved scholar who became one of the most important Black classicists in American history.

Beginning during the intellectual debates surrounding Black Athena, Dr. Ronnick questioned why Black participation in classical studies seemed largely absent from academic narratives. That question launched an international archival search involving rare books, unpublished manuscripts, institutional collections, and forgotten correspondence.

Her work ultimately resulted in the recovery and publication of Scarborough’s autobiography and renewed recognition of his groundbreaking 1881 Greek textbook—considered the first foreign-language textbook authored by a person of African descent.

The conversation expands beyond Scarborough to illuminate a broader intellectual network of underrecognized Black classical scholars connected through institutions like Howard University and the AME Church. Along the way, we explore archival discovery, academic exclusion, historical erasure, and the ongoing importance of student research in preserving overlooked histories.

Episode Timeline

00:00 Why Classics Mattered
00:24 Graduate School Origins
02:02 Black Athena Era Questions
02:53 Finding Scarborough
05:40 Chasing Lost Archives
09:24 Autobiography Breakthrough
12:04 Beyond Scarborough’s Network
18:46 Calhoun Quote and Historical Irony
23:37 Teaching and Legacy
27:07 Building the Photo Installation
28:08 Hunting Flia Campbell
29:33 Archive Breakthrough Photo
31:12 Expanding the Scholar List
32:19 Pinkney Warren Russell Evidence
34:43 Greener and Scarborough Letters
40:22 George Lightfoot at Howard
45:50 Inspiring New Researchers

About the Guest

Dr. Michele Valerie Ronnick is Distinguished Service Professor Emerita of Classics at Wayne State University and a leading scholar in recovering the history of Black classicists in the United States. Her archival research has reshaped understanding of African American participation in classical education and scholarship.

Her edited volume, The Autobiography of William Sanders Scarborough: An American Journey from Slavery, with a foreword by Henry Louis Gates Jr., is now available in paperback from Wayne State University Press (ISBN: 9780814332252).

Learn more about her work:
Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michele_Valerie_R

Conversations with Kenyatta features Kenyatta D. Berry. Music for episodes 1-76 is "Good Vibe" by Ketsa, Music for episodes 77+ is “Rheme – Afrobeat x African Instrumental x Reggae Beat,” via Pixabay.

Learn more about Kenyatta and her work at KenyattaBerry.com.

You can also connect with her on social media:
Instagram: @Kenyatta.Berry
Facebook: facebook.com/KenyattaDB

Thanks for listening, we’ll see you next time on Conversations with Kenyatta.

We are dedicated to exploring and discussing various aspects of genealogy, history, culture, and social issues. We aim to shed light on untold stories and perspectives that enrich our understanding of the world.

Disclaimer: All guest opinions expressed in Conversations with Kenyatta are their own and do not reflect the views of Kenyatta D. Berry.

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In this episode of Conversations with Kenyatta, Debra Britt, founder of the National Black Doll Museum, shares her powerful personal journey and the story behind her life’s work preserving Black history and identity through dolls.

Debra describes how her passion began in childhood when her grandmother helped her create her first Black doll — a moment that sparked a lifelong mission. She reflects on the adversity she faced, the mentors and educators who shaped her path, and how cultural pride and representation fueled her calling to collect, restore, and create Black dolls.

Throughout the conversation, she explains how dolls serve as storytellers, teaching tools, and healing instruments for children and adults alike. The museum’s collection preserves heritage, affirms identity, and opens important conversations about race, history, and resilience. Debra also discusses the realities of running a community-supported museum, including the ongoing need for volunteers and financial support.

⏱️ Episode Timeline

00:00 — Introduction and Early Inspiration
Debra’s childhood and creating her first Black doll with her grandmother

02:03 — Facing Adversity and Finding Strength
Early challenges and how resilience took shape

05:38 — Family Influence and Cultural Pride
The role of family, mentors, and educators

09:29 — Storytelling and Education Through Dolls
How dolls communicate history and identity

10:11 — Dolls as Silent Historians
Material culture as historical record

13:44 — The Healing Power of Dolls
Emotional connection and therapeutic impact

17:25 — Doll-Making Traditions and History
Cultural and historical craft practices

20:30 — Doll Therapy and Community Engagement
Programs and outreach work

23:57 — Letting Go and Dealing with Bullies
Personal growth and hard lessons

25:32 — Teaching Children About Racism and Slavery
Age-appropriate truth telling

26:32 — Special Dolls and Personal Stories
Meaningful pieces in the collection

28:52 — Memorable Visitor Reactions
Moments that stand out

33:38 — Community Support and Volunteer Needs
Behind-the-scenes realities of the museum

40:52 — Acquiring and Valuing Dolls
Collection practices and preservation

44:23 — Closing Reflections
Final thoughts and message to listeners

If this conversation moved you, consider supporting the museum’s work to preserve history, representation, and cultural identity through Black dolls and storytelling. You can help by donating, volunteering, spreading the word, or planning

Conversations with Kenyatta features Kenyatta D. Berry. Music for episodes 1-76 is "Good Vibe" by Ketsa, Music for episodes 77+ is “Rheme – Afrobeat x African Instrumental x Reggae Beat,” via Pixabay.

Learn more about Kenyatta and her work at KenyattaBerry.com.

You can also connect with her on social media:
Instagram: @Kenyatta.Berry
Facebook: facebook.com/KenyattaDB

Thanks for listening, we’ll see you next time on Conversations with Kenyatta.

We are dedicated to exploring and discussing various aspects of genealogy, history, culture, and social issues. We aim to shed light on untold stories and perspectives that enrich our understanding of the world.

Disclaimer: All guest opinions expressed in Conversations with Kenyatta are their own and do not reflect the views of Kenyatta D. Berry.

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Exploring the Life and Legacy of Charles W. Chesnutt

Guest: Dr. Tess Chakkalakal
Host: Kenyatta D. Berry

In this episode, Kenyatta D. Berry speaks with Dr. Tess Chakkalakal, a scholar of nineteenth-century African American and American literature, about her new book A Matter of Complexion: The Life and Fictions of Charles W. Chesnutt. Together, they explore Chesnutt’s remarkable career as one of the earliest African American fiction writers to achieve mainstream publication, and how his work continues to challenge and illuminate issues of race, identity, and American history.

Dr. Chakkalakal discusses Chesnutt’s influential novel The Marrow of Tradition, along with his complex portrayals of slavery, marriage, and freedom. The conversation delves into the intersections of literature, politics, and cultural memory, highlighting the importance of reading across genres and time periods to better understand the American story.

They also touch on Dr. Chakkalakal’s broader research, the preservation of historic writers’ homes, and the growing impact of book bans on literary education.

Books and Authors Mentioned

• Harriet Beecher Stowe, Uncle Tom’s Cabin
• Paul Laurence Dunbar
• Sutton E. Griggs, Imperium in Imperio
• Charles W. Chesnutt, The Marrow of Tradition
• Judy Blume, Are You There God? It’s Me, Margaret
• Virgil
• Homer
• Alexandre Dumas
• Cicero
• Henry James
• Edith Wharton
• Mark Twain
• William Dean Howells, A Modern Instance
• Brock Clarke
• Dead Writers: A Podcast About Great American Writers and Where They Lived
• Idlewild, Michigan

About the Guest

Dr. Tess Chakkalakal [pronounced “Chah-KAHL-ickle”] is the author of Novel Bondage: Slavery, Marriage, and Freedom in Nineteenth-Century America (University of Illinois Press, 2011), winner of the Robert K. Martin Prize for Best Book on American Literature. She is also co-editor of Jim Crow, Literature, and the Legacy of Sutton E. Griggs and Imperium in Imperio: A Critical Edition. Her newest book, A Matter of Complexion: The Life and Fictions of Charles W. Chesnutt, is available now from St. Martin’s Press.

Dr. Chakkalakal is co-host of the award-winning podcast Dead Writers and serves on the boards of the Harriet Beecher Stowe Center and the Maine Maritime Museum.

Conversations with Kenyatta features Kenyatta D. Berry. Music for episodes 1-76 is "Good Vibe" by Ketsa, Music for episodes 77+ is “Rheme – Afrobeat x African Instrumental x Reggae Beat,” via Pixabay.

Learn more about Kenyatta and her work at KenyattaBerry.com.

You can also connect with her on social media:
Instagram: @Kenyatta.Berry
Facebook: facebook.com/KenyattaDB

Thanks for listening, we’ll see you next time on Conversations with Kenyatta.

We are dedicated to exploring and discussing various aspects of genealogy, history, culture, and social issues. We aim to shed light on untold stories and perspectives that enrich our understanding of the world.

Disclaimer: All guest opinions expressed in Conversations with Kenyatta are their own and do not reflect the views of Kenyatta D. Berry.

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