Camille Preston went to the beach to start writing her book… and it promptly snowed 13 inches for the first time in more than a decade. An abrupt reminder that conditions change fast, even when you think you know what's coming. It's the perfect setup for this conversation about how leaders actually make decisions today.

A business psychologist and author of Living Real, Camille challenges the old markers of success and pushes leaders to understand themselves well enough to make decisions from the inside out. She talks about being "totally put together and a hot mess," not as a contradiction but as an honest snapshot of what it feels like to lead on shifting ground.

In this conversation with Mack, Camille shares the tools she uses with leaders every day: adjusting altitude to get the right perspective, using integrated decision-making so the head, heart, and body all inform the choice, and applying her Donut Model to recognize when you're in comfort, growth, or approaching burnout. Across it all, she comes back to the idea that anchors her approach: be clear on the outcome, flexible on the approach. In a world flooded with data but starved for real clarity, Camille argues that the most valuable leadership skill is the ability to pause, shift perspective, and listen inward.