In this conversation, Jesse Hake welcomes Dr. Christopher Perrin to explore leadership in the virtue and liberal arts tradition. Drawing from the ClassicalU courses Leadership and the Liberal Arts and Essential School Leadership, Dr. Perrin reflects on how classical and Christian traditions of virtue shape a truly human vision of leadership—one rooted not in dominance but in service, humility, and paradoxical wisdom. He explains how the liberal arts cultivate both the intellectual habits and moral character necessary for wise leadership, especially in classical Christian schools. The discussion also highlights the Educational Leadership for Classical Christian Schools masters program offered through Gordon College, in which Dr. Perrin co-teaches a course on Leadership and the Liberal Arts with Keith Nix. Students engage figures such as Marcus Aurelius, Augustine, Boethius, and Sertillanges, while learning to apply classical insights to the real challenges of school leadership. Listeners will come away with a renewed vision of leadership as a lifelong pursuit of wisdom, virtue, and community.

In this wide-ranging conversation, sociologist, educator and ClassicalU course presenter Angel Adams Parham joins Jesse Hake to explore the idea of an “American classical education.” Drawing, in part, upon her work on “The Black Intellectual Tradition” and Women in the Liberal Arts Tradition, Angel makes a compelling case for expanding our understanding of classical education to include voices like Olaudah Equiano, Phyllis Wheatley, Benjamin Banneker, and Martin Luther King Jr. She argues that these thinkers not only embraced the ideals of freedom, justice, and human dignity but also challenged the American project to live up to them. The episode examines how figures often seen in opposition to the Western canon actually engage deeply with classical texts, bringing them to life in prophetic and transformative ways. Angel also shares success stories from her curriculum work in Nyansa Classical Community and offers hopeful signs of renewal in both K–12 and university contexts. Angel believes a true classical education must be capacious, critical, and living—one that welcomes students of all backgrounds into conversations about ancient truths with contemporary relevance.

In this rich and wide-ranging conversation, scholar Louis Markos joins host Jesse Hake to discuss his upcoming ClassicalU course, and forthcoming companion book on Dante’s Divine Comedy. Markos explores Dante’s visionary architecture of Hell, Purgatory, and Paradise, not merely as allegory, but as a deeply experiential and spiritually transformative journey. Sharing his creative process for writing in Dante’s voice, he reflects on the beauty of the medieval cosmological model and its resonance with Christian truths, classical education, and even contemporary longing for spiritual depth. The episode dives into topics such as hierarchy, theosis, pilgrimage, classical myth, and the enduring influence of Dante on C. S. Lewis and modern Christian imagination. Listeners will also hear practical encouragement for teaching Dante, including translation tips, thematic frameworks, and connections to Lewis’s Great Divorce and Voyage of the Dawn Treader. Whether you're new to Dante or a seasoned reader, this episode offers a compelling invitation to walk with the poet through realms of sin, repentance, and divine glory. Other ClassicalU course mentioned is Myth Made Fact.