Dr. Elizabeth Economy sits down with Patrick McGee, Financial Times technology journalist and author of "Apple in China," discussing how Apple's deep integration into China's manufacturing ecosystem inadvertently helped build China into the industrial powerhouse it is today. McGee traces Apple's journey from near-bankruptcy in the late 1990s to becoming deeply dependent on Chinese manufacturing, explaining how Apple didn't just outsource production but actively trained Chinese factories and transferred sophisticated manufacturing knowledge that later benefited competitors like Huawei and Xiaomi. The two explore critical inflection points, including Apple's partnership with Foxconn, political tensions with Xi Jinping's government in 2013, and Tim Cook's decision to double down on China rather than diversify despite growing risks. McGee argues that Apple's current dependence on China is so profound that meaningful diversification to India or the United States faces enormous practical and economic obstacles, with Chinese manufacturing capabilities now potentially surpassing Apple's own expertise. The episode concludes with McGee advocating for a realistic U.S. policy that accepts manufacturing across allies, while warning that Americans fundamentally underestimate how technologically sophisticated China has become.

Recorded on December 10, 2025.

ABOUT THE SERIES

China Considered with Elizabeth Economy is a Hoover Institution podcast series that features in-depth conversations with leading political figures, scholars, and activists from around the world. The series explores the ideas, events, and forces shaping China’s future and its global relationships, offering high-level expertise, clear-eyed analysis, and valuable insights to demystify China’s evolving dynamics and what they may mean for ordinary citizens and key decision makers across societies, governments, and the private sector.

Dr. Elizabeth Economy talks with Dr. Bonny Lin about China's evolving security posture and military ambitions under Xi Jinping. Lin explains how China's goals extend beyond regional dominance to achieving global parity with or superiority over the United States, tracing major inflection points including South China Sea island-building, military reforms, and the strategic partnership with Russia following its invasion of Ukraine. The two then discuss ongoing purges within the Chinese military, and in turn, what these upheavals mean for military competence and readiness. The conversation then turns to Taiwan, where Lin argues that Xi Jinping's conditions for unification have become far more stringent than his predecessors and warns that the late 2020s could be particularly dangerous for cross-strait relations. They conclude with an analysis of the broader implications of China's alignment with Russia, North Korea, and Iran, and recommendations for U.S. policy to capitalize on Chinese missteps while strengthening alliances.

Recorded on November 11, 2025.

ABOUT THE SERIES

China Considered with Elizabeth Economy is a Hoover Institution podcast series that features in-depth conversations with leading political figures, scholars, and activists from around the world. The series explores the ideas, events, and forces shaping China’s future and its global relationships, offering high-level expertise, clear-eyed analysis, and valuable insights to demystify China’s evolving dynamics and what they may mean for ordinary citizens and key decision makers across societies, governments, and the private sector.

Dr. Elizabeth Economy talks with Dr. Joanna Lewis and Dr. Scott Moore to explore China's commanding position in the global clean energy sector and its far-reaching implications. The two experts explain how China has become both the world's largest manufacturer and consumer of clean energy technologies, dominating supply chains from raw materials through finished products like solar panels, wind turbines, and batteries. The conversation tackles the complex question of whether China can be considered a climate leader, revealing a mixed picture of impressive renewable energy investments alongside continued heavy coal dependence. Additionally, the three address China's recent export restrictions on rare earth materials, examining whether this move strengthens or undermines China's strategic position in ongoing trade tensions with the United States. The discussion concludes with recommendations for U.S. policy, including avoiding the reversal of clean energy progress and potentially negotiating deals with Chinese companies to keep American industries competitive.

Recorded on October 23, 2025.

ABOUT THE SERIES

China Considered with Elizabeth Economy is a Hoover Institution podcast series that features in-depth conversations with leading political figures, scholars, and activists from around the world. The series explores the ideas, events, and forces shaping China’s future and its global relationships, offering high-level expertise, clear-eyed analysis, and valuable insights to demystify China’s evolving dynamics and what they may mean for ordinary citizens and key decision makers across societies, governments, and the private sector.

Host Dr. Elizabeth Economy interviews Dr. Chenjian Li, discussing the fundamental differences between the Chinese and US systems. He highlights China's rapid progress in biotech and pharmaceutical development, predicting the country may produce its first truly innovative drug within five years. While the U.S. excels at "zero-to-one" grassroots innovation stemming from decades of basic research, China has traditionally focused on "one-to-100" government-supported scaling and is now increasingly investing in breakthrough innovation. The conversation concludes with Dr. Li's recommendations for U.S. competitiveness: continuing robust basic science funding, maintaining large-scale translational research programs, and preserving America's traditional openness to global talent, which he argues brings not just technical expertise but also scientific thinking and open inquiry to societies worldwide.

Recorded on October 1, 2025.

ABOUT THE SERIES

China Considered with Elizabeth Economy is a Hoover Institution podcast series that features in-depth conversations with leading political figures, scholars, and activists from around the world. The series explores the ideas, events, and forces shaping China’s future and its global relationships, offering high-level expertise, clear-eyed analysis, and valuable insights to demystify China’s evolving dynamics and what they may mean for ordinary citizens and key decision makers across societies, governments, and the private sector.

Host Dr. Elizabeth Economy interviews Yanzhong Huang, a leading expert on China's public health system, examining how China has evolved from the COVID-19 pandemic and its growing role in global health diplomacy. The two explore China’s dramatic policy pivots—from initial inaction to draconian zero-COVID lockdowns to sudden reopening—and analyze why meaningful domestic reforms and transparency remain elusive despite lessons from the crisis. Huang discusses China's strategic health diplomacy, particularly how its provision of vaccines and medical supplies during COVID earned goodwill in developing countries. The conversation reveals how U.S. withdrawal from global health institutions creates opportunities for China to expand its influence through the Health Silk Road initiative, requiring minimal effort to fill the vacuum left by the American absence. Huang argues that the unresolved controversy over COVID-19's origins and deep mistrust between Washington and Beijing have effectively frozen bilateral health cooperation, making dialogue nearly impossible even in an area traditionally viewed as ripe for collaboration.

Recorded on October 1, 2025.

ABOUT THE SERIES

China Considered with Elizabeth Economy is a Hoover Institution podcast series that features in-depth conversations with leading political figures, scholars, and activists from around the world. The series explores the ideas, events, and forces shaping China’s future and its global relationships, offering high-level expertise, clear-eyed analysis, and valuable insights to demystify China’s evolving dynamics and what they may mean for ordinary citizens and key decision makers across societies, governments, and the private sector.

Host Dr. Elizabeth Economy interviews Oliver Melton, who shares insider perspectives on China's complex economy, drawing from his years as a diplomat in Beijing and his current role at the Rhodium Group. Economy and Melton discuss how China's structural imbalances, high savings rates, and over-investment in real estate have created fundamental economic challenges that the leadership struggles to address through consumption-boosting policies. Melton also evaluates three major Chinese initiatives: the Belt and Road's evolution from sprawling campaign to targeted strategic investments, Made in China 2025's mixed success, and China's approach to de-dollarization focused on sanctions-proofing. The two also touch on the difficulties of US-China economic diplomacy and that any effective response to China's industrial policies requires coordinated action among the US, Europe, Japan, and other allies rather than unilateral American measures.

Recorded on September 11, 2025.

ABOUT THE SERIES

China Considered with Elizabeth Economy is a Hoover Institution podcast series that features in-depth conversations with leading political figures, scholars, and activists from around the world. The series explores the ideas, events, and forces shaping China’s future and its global relationships, offering high-level expertise, clear-eyed analysis, and valuable insights to demystify China’s evolving dynamics and what they may mean for ordinary citizens and key decision makers across societies, governments, and the private sector.

Host Dr. Elizabeth Economy interviews Noah Barkin, senior advisor with the Rhodium Group, about the evolving EU-China relationship following their July 2025 summit celebrating 50 years of diplomatic ties. Barkin traces Europe's awakening to the China challenge and China's designation as a "systemic rival" in 2019, explaining how the EU has developed its own distinct approach to managing Chinese economic competition. The conversation explores why China's strategy of leveraging Trump-era U.S.-Europe tensions to drive a wedge between allies has largely failed, with Europe maintaining its critical stance on issues like Chinese overcapacity and support for Russia. Barkin discusses the different approaches among EU member states, the significance of China's rare earth controls, and Wang Yi's surprising admission that Beijing wants to keep the U.S. "distracted" with the Ukraine war. Drawing on his expertise from Berlin, Barkin offers insights into whether Europe can maintain unity on China policy and what tools the EU needs to address the growing economic and security challenges posed by Chinese behavior.

Recorded on July 29, 2025.

ABOUT THE SERIES

China Considered with Elizabeth Economy is a Hoover Institution podcast series that features in-depth conversations with leading political figures, scholars, and activists from around the world. The series explores the ideas, events, and forces shaping China’s future and its global relationships, offering high-level expertise, clear-eyed analysis, and valuable insights to demystify China’s evolving dynamics and what they may mean for ordinary citizens and key decision makers across societies, governments, and the private sector.

Dr. Elizabeth Economy interviews Professor David Shambaugh about his new book Breaking the Engagement: How China Won & Lost America, which examines the collapse of America's four-decade engagement strategy with China. Shambaugh argues that China initially "won over" American constituencies during the reform era, but starting around 2010, these groups faced increasing obstacles in China, leading to the breakdown of the "engagement coalition." The conversation explores the five schools of thought dominating current US-China policy debates and Shambaugh's assertion that the relationship has shifted to "indefinite, comprehensive, competitive rivalry." Drawing on his experience as both a leading China scholar and a former government official who witnessed key moments like normalization in 1979, Shambaugh offers insights into whether this dynamic can be managed to prevent further escalation.

Recorded on July 9, 2025.

ABOUT THE SERIES

China Considered with Elizabeth Economy is a Hoover Institution podcast series that features in-depth conversations with leading political figures, scholars, and activists from around the world. The series explores the ideas, events, and forces shaping China’s future and its global relationships, offering high-level expertise, clear-eyed analysis, and valuable insights to demystify China’s evolving dynamics and what they may mean for ordinary citizens and key decision makers across societies, governments, and the private sector.