Francis Fukuyama joins Cheap Talk to discuss the rise of authoritarianism; Europe’s security environment; the risk of AI catastrophe; signs of hope for democratic resilience; and Marcus has a lot of respect for centenarians

Francis Fukuyama is the Olivier Nomellini Senior Fellow at Stanford University's Freeman Spogli Institute for International Studies (FSI). He has written widely on issues in development and international politics. His books include The End of History and the Last Man (1992), The Origins of Political Order (2011), Political Order and Political Decay (2014), Identity: The Demand for Dignity and the Politics of Resentment (2018), and Liberalism and Its Discontents (2022).

The opinions expressed on this podcast are solely our own and do not reflect the policies or positions of William & Mary.

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Further Reading:
Francis Fukuyama. 1989. “The End of History?” The National Interest 16: 3–18.

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What, if anything, the government shutdown means for international politics; the US and its weakened capacity to conduct foreign policy; non-great-power nomenclature; defining power in the international system; how middle powers can achieve their goals in international relations; shifts in great power foreign policy toward smaller states; and Marcus has seen the error of his ways

The opinions expressed on this podcast are solely our own and do not reflect the policies or positions of William & Mary.

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Small signs of hope for arms control between the United States and Russia; a review of the last ten years of US-Russia policy; explaining Trump’s about-face on Ukraine; an airing of grievances at the UN; and Marcus can’t wait for Thanksgiving

The opinions expressed on this podcast are solely our own and do not reflect the policies or positions of William & Mary.

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Further Listening:
“Little Time Capsules.” Cheap Talk Podcast. October 1, 2023.

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Russian drone incursions into Polish airspace; questions about Russia’s intent; the risk of escalation; deterrence failure in protecting NATO airspace; preference differences within the alliance; a deal for TikTok; China’s interest in global governance and a multipolar world; and Marcus has a step-by-step plan for China’s world domination

The opinions expressed on this podcast are solely our own and do not reflect the policies or positions of William & Mary.

Please subscribe to Cheap Talk on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your podcast player of choice to be notified when new episodes are posted.

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Further Listening:
“Fly Over Our Great Nation.” Cheap Talk Podcast. February 11, 2023.

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Why Trump thought there might be a deal with Russia; the obliteration of Iran’s nuclear program; speaking truth to power; deterrence failure and pushing Iran toward nuclear weapons; Iran’s modest response to the attacks; enforcement within the NPT; implications for regional and global security; and Marcus reflects on why he was so wrong

The opinions expressed on this podcast are solely our own and do not reflect the policies or positions of William & Mary.

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Further Reading:
Gram Slattery, Jonathan Landay and Andreas Rinke. 2025. “The 'land swap' that wasn't: Inside Trump's frantic dash for Ukraine peace.” Reuters.

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Thank you to our listeners for joining us for five seasons and 100 episodes!

Cheap Talk returns for Season 6: Advice for new college students; the Trump-Putin summit spectacle; analyzing Trump’s body language; the challenges of studying summitry; the Trump administration’s unique approach to high-level meetings; a typology of leader diplomacy; Zelensky’s DC visit; the Trump administration’s overall posture toward the conflict; and Marcus would be happy to say nothing at all

The opinions expressed on this podcast are solely our own and do not reflect the policies or positions of William & Mary.

Please subscribe to Cheap Talk on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your podcast player of choice to be notified when new episodes are posted.

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Please send us your questions or comments!

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A Cheap Talk emergency episode on the Israel-Iran conflict

Cheap Talk’s Season 5 finale: Everyone is cheating their way through college; remembering Joe Nye; interpreting President Trump’s big beautiful phone call with Vladimir Putin; evaluating the Golden Dome missile defense system; missile defense and strategic stability; and Marcus is looking forward to season 6

We’re mostly taking the summer off from podcasting (unless something big happens), but we’ll be back to our regular weekly schedule in the fall. In the meantime, please subscribe to Cheap Talk on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your podcast player of choice to be notified when new episodes are posted.

The opinions expressed on this podcast are solely our own and do not reflect the policies or positions of William & Mary.

Check out our online store at https://cheaptalk.shop.

Please send us your questions or comments.

Further Reading:
Picture of Trump and Zelensky at the Vatican.

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