"It's in their constitution to be injured."

"We've bred them to be like this."

Both of these came up in the same conversation — and the paradox sitting between them is one of the patterns Jessie McCarthy's research surfaces about how racing talks to itself about risk.

In this week's episode, Karen and Meta sit down with Jessie McCarthy, a final-year veterinary student at the University of Surrey, with a Master's in Animal Welfare, Ethics and Law from the University of Glasgow. Her recently published paper, co-authored with Ewan Bennett and Heather Cameron-Whitlock, takes a less common approach to social licence in racing: rather than starting from outside the sport, she interviewed twelve insiders about how they perceive the risks horses face, and the language they reach for when things go wrong.

What emerges is a quietly revealing portrait of a sport in conversation with itself. Risk often gets reframed as a communication problem rather than a welfare one.

Responsibility gets dispersed across the sport — until, as Jessie's research shows, it often quietly settles on the horses themselves. Their fragility. Their nature. Their breeding.

But of course — we bred them.

In this conversation, we explore:

• Why the words we reach for ("accident," "incident," "adverse event") shape what we believe is possible
• How tradition and identity in the horse world can act as a brake on reform
• Pin firing, generational change, and what the next generation of equine vets is choosing differently
• Why a horse's welfare may be shaped less by race day than by the other 360 days
• The question of equine consent — and why only one of twelve stakeholders raised it
• And, offered any wish in the world, Jessie's is gloriously simple: more turnout, more friends, more forage

A thoughtful, generous conversation with a young vet whose research invites the horse world — insiders and outsiders alike — to reflect on the stories we've inherited.

🎧 Subscribe and share with someone who loves horses.

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We love our animals. But is that enough?

Captive animal welfare specialist Georgina Groves joins Karen and Meta for a conversation about the uncomfortable gap between what we know about animal welfare and what we actually do.

Georgina's work takes her into some of the world's most under-resourced zoos — but the parallels she draws for horse people are striking. Stables that haven't meaningfully changed in a century. Animals who've forgotten how to be their own species. A health-centric idea of care that protects the body while quietly constraining the life.

This is an episode about welfare washing, moral duty, and the difference between caring for an animal and caring about one.

Featuring the story of four bears who had to relearn how to be bears — and what that might mean for the horses in our care.

🎧 Listen in, then join the conversation.

Guest: Georgina Groves, captive animal welfare specialist and co-founder of Wild Welfare

Hosts: Dr Karen Luke and Meta Osborne

GEORGINA'S LINKEDIN POSTLINK TO WILD WELFARE

Erica Cheung is a horse owner, mixed-practice (including equine) vet clinic co-owner, and PhD candidate living in rural central Alberta, Canada. She obtained a Bachelor of Science from the University of Alberta, a Master of Science in clinical animal behaviour, and is currently studying under the supervision of Professor Daniel Mills and Dr. Beth Ventura for her PhD at the University of Lincoln, UK. She has lectured at the University of Alberta on One Health, animal behaviour and welfare. Her PhD work is focused on the sociocultural factors that may influence how performance horses are trained and managed.