In this episode of The AI and I Show, host Chris Parker speaks with Tony Fish, a serial entrepreneur, investor, and board advisor known for challenging how leaders think about uncertainty, governance, and technology. Drawing from his book Decision Making in Uncertain Times, Tony invites us to slow down and reconsider the questions we’re asking about artificial intelligence - and ourselves.

Rather than falling into the predictable camps of tech optimism or dystopian fear, Tony argues that our collective understanding of AI is still shallow. Through his Peak Paradox framework, he describes the ongoing human challenge of balancing four tensions: personal survival, individual optimization, organizational performance, and societal good. This ability to navigate paradox, he suggests, is what makes us uniquely human - and what AI, in its relentless drive for efficiency, often overlooks.

The conversation explores consciousness, heroism, organizational design, and the ethics of automation, ultimately converging on a single, profound question: What is the one meaningful KPI we should have for AI? Tony’s answer reframes the entire debate: success isn’t about how efficiently AI can answer questions, but whether it helps humanity ask better ones. For leaders, innovators, and thinkers, this episode offers a practical and philosophical compass for keeping human curiosity - and not mere computation - at the center of technological progress.

Guest Bio
Tony Fish is a serial entrepreneur, investor, and board advisor with more than 30 years of experience navigating complexity and uncertainty across industries. He has authored six books, including Decision Making in Uncertain Times, which challenges conventional leadership by focusing on thriving amid ambiguity and incomplete data. Tony advises boards on ethics, governance, and digital transformation and teaches at leading business schools. His writing at opengovernance.net explores how to keep technological systems accountable to human values.

Notable Quotes
"If you're into the world of optimization, it is absolutely only designed for one thing: to constrain and lock people in and exploit."
"We cannot disassociate humans from business. If we do, we lose our capacity for compassion, novelty, and love."
"What is the one meaningful KPI we should have for AI? It will help me ask better questions rather than efficiently answer predetermined ones."

Learn more about how to bring AI into your organization with humanity at the center at Ebullient.com.