Marketing teams are struggling to stand out in a world where old playbooks no longer deliver. In this episode, Charlie Riley and Greg Wise talk with David Kirkdorffer about the urgent shift marketers face as large language models become a new venue for brand discoverability. David shares why he believes AI visibility is the next frontier, how out-of-home advertising influences brand recall, and why the line between demand generation and brand marketing continues to blur. From the challenges of reducing digital noise to the power of consistent storytelling across every touchpoint, this conversation explores how marketers can prepare today to win tomorrow.

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David Kirkdorffer is a Boston-based B2B marketing consultant with decades of experience driving demand generation and brand visibility. Having worked with 23 startups and 5 public companies, he focuses on helping technology businesses prepare for the future of buyer enablement. David advises CMOs on increasing their brand’s presence within large language models such as ChatGPT, Gemini, Claude, Copilot, and Perplexity — a new battleground for discoverability.

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• Why large language models are the new discoverability venue for brands
• How buyer enablement reshapes the marketing approach to long sales cycles
• The growing challenge of reducing digital noise while increasing visibility
• Why brand marketing and demand generation are merging into a single effort
• How out-of-home advertising drives subconscious recall and measurable impact
• Strategies for telling a consistent brand story across every touchpoint
• Measuring success: tying out-of-home efforts to ROI, pipeline, and branded search
• The importance of context and environment in how audiences receive messages

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• Scrappy ABM Podcast
• Large language models referenced: ChatGPT, Gemini, Claude, Copilot, Perplexity

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Low-Tech, High-Impact Account-Based Marketing

If you’re ready to trade expensive, tech-heavy account-based marketing for a repeatable, revenue-driving ABM program, check out Scrappy ABM. Led by a team of Scrappy ABM experts, they specialize in low-budget plays and programs that deliver high impact—no shiny tools required. Scrappy ABM has built account-based programs that have delivered millions in revenue, and you can build your first successful ABM program with their help.

Start with a pilot program or launch an account-based podcast. Learn more at scrappyabm.com. Let's get scrappy.

Greg Wise and Charlie Riley welcome Pranav Piyush, CEO of Paramark, for a brutally honest conversation about marketing measurement, attribution myths, and why most dashboards should be deleted.

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Drawing from experience at Dropbox, Pilot, Magento, and Bill, Pranav outlines what’s broken in traditional analytics—and why a statistical foundation is non-negotiable for modern marketing leaders. From “dashboard theater” to why 80% of campaigns fail (and why that’s normal), this episode is a wake-up call for anyone still defaulting to vanity metrics.

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The trio also breaks down why out-of-home marketing fails without creative boldness, why most branded search ads are a waste, and how Paramark is redefining incrementality and measurement through statistical modeling and experimentation. Packed with hot takes, hard truths, and tactical advice—this one’s a must-listen for any CMO under pressure to prove value.

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Pranav Piyush is the CEO and founder of Paramark, a marketing measurement platform built for CFOs and CMOs who demand statistical rigor. With a background in growing teams at Dropbox, Pilot, Magento, and Bill, he’s now focused on solving one of marketing’s most persistent problems: valid, causal measurement across every channel—including out-of-home and podcasts.

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• Why “90% of attribution tech is theater” and most dashboards can be deleted without business impact
• The skill gap in marketing leadership: “You can’t learn statistics from ChatGPT”
• A scientific framework for testing: marketing mix modeling vs. incrementality testing
• Why many startups ruin out-of-home by doing it wrong the first time
• What makes campaigns like Canva’s outdoor strategy succeed where others fail
• How marketers can protect bold creative ideas from short-term performance pressure
• Why CMOs must educate the C-suite that “80% of what I do will fail”
• The right way to test billboard effectiveness across markets
• How Paramark helps marketers isolate true channel performance without replacing their team

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• Paramark Office Hours
• Canva’s out-of-home campaign (discussed, no link provided)
• Shanik Patel (former Grammarly growth lead, no link provided)

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Low-Tech, High-Impact Account-Based Marketing

If you’re ready to trade expensive, tech-heavy account-based marketing for a repeatable, revenue-driving ABM program, check out Scrappy ABM. Led by a team of Scrappy ABM experts, they specialize in low-budget plays and programs that deliver high impact—no shiny tools required. Scrappy ABM has built account-based programs that have delivered millions in revenue, and you can build your first successful ABM program with their help.

Start with a pilot program or launch an account-based podcast. Learn more at scrappyabm.com. Let's get scrappy.

Is your brand ready for the holiday season—or stuck in the same old cycle?

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In this episode, Charlie Riley and Greg Wise sit down with Jennie Kaylie, CEO of Rock the Brands, to explore the shifting dynamics of DTC branding, where even the most performance-driven marketers are now investing in sonic logos, creator partnerships, and emotional value.

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Jennie breaks down why today’s consumers expect authenticity over polish, what makes creators more trusted than brands, and how long-term loyalty—not short-term ROAS—defines success. The conversation covers how out-of-home can seed digital campaigns, why most brands live in a bubble, and why your team might need to hit autopilot just to make Q4 count.

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If your marketing still thinks like it’s 2019, this episode will challenge your entire playbook.

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Jennie Kaylie is the CEO of Rock the Brands, a branding agency focused on helping DTC brands grow through strategy, marketing, customer experience, and innovation. A self-described brand “Swiss Army knife,” Jennie has worked with companies including Wayfair, PwC, Suntory, and Edelman. She brings deep expertise in brand strategy, creative direction, and building emotional value in a crowded market.

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• Why performance marketers are embracing brand-building tools like creator partnerships and sonic logos
• How Gen Z and millennials trust creators more than brands—and what that means for strategy
• The difference between polished vs. native content in modern brand storytelling
• Out-of-home as a driver for digital retargeting and campaign amplification
• Why emotional marketing and functional marketing must be balanced
• The “magic brandformance formula” that blends awareness with action
• Planning for Q4: earlier timelines, limited inventory, and smarter holiday messaging
• Why brand marketing needs to prioritize LTV over short-term performance metrics
• What most brands get wrong about awareness, and how to avoid “Blockbuster syndrome”
• How creative testing, speed, and cultural timing win in the modern DTC landscape

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• Rock the Brands
• Jennie Kaylie on LinkedIn
• Glossier subway campaign with digital retargeting
• Spotify Wrapped outdoor campaign
• Brand measurement platforms: Yuca, Google Brand Lift, Meta Brand Lift

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Low-Tech, High-Impact Account-Based Marketing

If you’re ready to trade expensive, tech-heavy account-based marketing for a repeatable, revenue-driving ABM program, check out Scrappy ABM. Led by a team of Scrappy ABM experts, they specialize in low-budget plays and programs that deliver high impact—no shiny tools required. Scrappy ABM has built account-based programs that have delivered millions in revenue, and you can build your first successful ABM program with their help.

Start with a pilot program or launch an account-based podcast. Learn more at scrappyabm.com. Let's get scrappy.