The 2025 Year in Review (That Wasn’t Supposed to Happen)

What started as a neat 15-minute intro quietly turned into a full end-of-year wrap-up. Classic Below the Surface. Gunnar and James get side-tracked almost immediately and eventually realise they have recorded the accidental 2025 BTS year in review. They cover listener feedback, behind-the-scenes stats, favourite episodes and a special mention for Sandgate.

Personal obsessions make an appearance, with both sharing their top five podcasts of the year. Strong opinions, minimal overlap, and proof that podcast hosts mostly listen to other podcasts.

On the technical front, Gunnar explains why the new AS 5370 feels like a step backwards, followed by a familiar rant on mandatory low-speed EV noise in Australia. EVs also feature heavily, including the claim that at least 11 new electric vehicles have hit Sydney roads thanks to a BTS episode.

The EPA gets its own moment, with discussion of recent turmoil, announcements that feel straight out of Utopia, and Gunnar’s practical solution to the EPA’s budget problems. They finish with updates on Resource Recovery Orders, the new ASS RRO, and thoughts on a possible National EPA.

Unplanned, slightly chaotic, and very on brand. A fitting way to wrap up 2025.

Links:

Gunnar's Top 5 Podcasts

The Tennis Podcast

Uncomfortable Conversations with Josh Szeps

Andy Roddick's Served Podcast

The Michael Shermer Show

Joe Rogan (his interview with Lance Armstrong: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEfSdPz1WtA)

All the other podcasts Gunnar subscribes to in one handy link

James' favourites

The Imperfects Podcast

Two Broke Watch Snobs

Democracy Sausage with Mark Kenny | Australian Studies Institute

The Rights to Ricky Sanchez - A podcast about the Philadelphia 76ers

The Art of Manliness

This BTS Episode was recorded on 12 December 2025

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The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers.

(c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond

What it's really like to be regulated?

Regulators, take note - this one’s for you.

We are shining the light on the third corner of the Regulator – Consultant – Client relationship: the Client.

What’s it really like to be on the receiving end of regulation? Do operators of licensed facilities feel supported … or just scrutinised? Are those hefty licence fees worth it? And is there a fair playing field between the licensed and the “let’s-pretend-we-don’t-need-a-licence” crowd?

Of course, it’s not all about the regulators, consultants, you’ll want to listen too.
What do clients actually expect from us? What builds trust, and what breaks it?

To kick off this new series, Gunnar and James sit down with Anthony Alpen, Founder and CEO of Tank Management Australia (TMA). As the head of an IBC (Intermediate Bulk Container) reconditioning company, working under a strict EPL, Anthony knows first-hand what it means to navigate the regulatory maze.

Sure, it sounds a bit dry on paper, but, as always, Gunnar and James find the sweet spot between serious insights and a few good laughs. It’s smart, it’s honest, and it’s the kind of chat that’ll make both regulators and consultants think twice (in a good way).

The episode was recorded on 10 October 2025.

Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category

Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au

https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast

The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers.

(c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond

The NSW Health PFAS Advice includes quite some statements:

• “The health effects of PFAS appear to be small.”
• “… there was definite evidence of increased psychological distress in … exposed communities, evidence for other adverse health outcomes from this study was limited.”
• “Interventions that reduce blood PFAS are of uncertain benefit and may cause harm.”

These comments seem at odds with much of the mainstream media's presentation around PFAS. Or even the recently drastically reduced drinking water guidelines or Version 3 of the National Environmental Management Plan (NEMP) for PFAS. On top of that, the statements are unusually direct for a government public health communication, which made us curious to understand how NSW Health had arrived at these conclusions.

To find out, Gunnar and James reached out to NSW Health. Their media team was quick to respond and connected them with two members of the expert advisory panel:

• Dr Claire Hooker – Associate Professor, Health Humanities and Arts and Health, Sydney Health Ethics
• Prof Martyn Kirk – National Centre for Epidemiology and Population Health, Australian National University

Speaking with these distinguished researchers was a privilege. Despite being a little star-struck, Gunnar and James kept their cool and recorded one of their most insightful conversations to date.

This episode was recorded on 30 September 2025 and it is dense with evidence, reasoning, and nuance - it’s well worth your full attention.

Southern Cross University Acid Sulfate Soil Course

Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category

Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au

https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast

The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers.

(c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond