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In this conclusion of our conversation with former U.S. Secretary of Education John King, we ask how we can build community and conversations with folks with whom we feel we have nothing in common.

Secretary King offers his example of reconciling with the decedents of those who enslaved his ancestors.

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Zac and Stephanie welcome former U.S. Secreatary of Education John King to the show to discuss his new book Teacher by Teacher.

In this first part of the conversation, we discuss where we can find hope as public education is under attack, how we can fight for the rights of students across the country, and how we can begin vulnerable conversations with folks with whom we disagree.

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Almost 20 years ago, Carol Dweck's work on mindsets set the education world ablaze. Not long after that, the field started using Dweck's work in some helpful and not-so-helpful ways.

In this episode, Zac and Stephanie sit down with Cathy Williams of Stanford University's You Cubed to talk about the impact of growth and fixed mindset and how people learn better when they believe they can...well, learn.

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The Supreme Court says it's okay for the Trump Administration to shutter the U.S. Department of Education while they wait for the case to formally reach them. AND, the Office of Management and Budget withholds BILLIONS of Title funds from states and districts. All this has Zac and Stephanie reeling with questions. So, they ask Education Law Professor Jon Becker back on the show to...you guessed it...make sense of public education.

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Stephanie and Zac talk with Dr. Maggie Beiting-Parrish about the possible intended and unintended consequences of John Hattie's work and what we should be asking when we see research in education and beyond.

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In this episode Stephanie and Zac talk to Dr. Ji Son from Cal State Los Angeles to get a better understanding of why it's so hard to add complexity to information once we've got our minds made up as well as some helpful tricks to make new information stickier. Then, they dive in to the work of John Hattie and begin to examine how his attempts to share what's "effective" in education spread like wildfire.

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Stephanie and Zac talk with guests Katy Joseph and Sam Ames - the two most recent former chiefs of staff for the U.S. Department of Education's Office for Civil Rights (OCR). They discuss OCR's origins, work, and possible future with a 50% reduction in staff and ever-increasing caseload.

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Stephanie and Zac unpack the of one of the most famous pyramids in education (Bloom's taxonomy) and attempt to draw a line from its post-WWII origins to the requirement of teachers writing their objectives on the board.

For the second half of the show, researcher Katherine McEldoon joins to offer an alternative way to figure out if students' (and adults') brains are doing the work we hope they are during learning.