On this episode of Zen and the Art of Real Estate Investing, Jonathan Greene interviews John McNellis, a longtime developer, investor, writer, lecturer, and principal at McNellis Partners, as well as the author of Making It in Real Estate: Thriving as a Developer. Drawing from decades of experience in development and commercial real estate, John shares how he unexpectedly transitioned from practicing law into real estate and built a career developing shopping centers and navigating changing market cycles.

John explains how his legal background gave him an early advantage by exposing him to larger deals, partnerships, financing structures, and the people behind major real estate projects. He reflects on starting with small residential investments before moving into industrial and eventually finding his niche in retail development. Throughout the conversation, he emphasizes that investors often overcomplicate deal analysis and argues that great opportunities should still make sense with simple back-of-the-napkin math rather than relying entirely on projections and complex models.

The conversation also explores what makes retail real estate work and why location still matters more than ever. John shares insights into shopping center development, tenant relationships, traffic patterns, anchor tenants, and why concepts like "right in, right out" continue to influence successful projects. He explains how retailers think about demographics, parking, visibility, and customer behavior — and why understanding these details separates experienced operators from investors chasing surface-level opportunities.

Jonathan and John also discuss why retail has proven more resilient than many predicted despite years of headlines claiming e-commerce would replace physical stores. John shares how successful retail operators adapted by combining physical locations with online fulfillment and explains why neighborhood shopping centers continue to perform well. Ultimately, the episode highlights that great real estate investing still comes down to relationships, understanding human behavior, and staying focused on fundamentals over trends.

In this episode, you will hear:

• How John McNellis transitioned from law into real estate development
• Why simple underwriting often beats complicated financial models
• What makes shopping centers succeed or fail over time
• How traffic patterns, anchor tenants, and demographics drive retail performance
• Why retail real estate continues to evolve rather than disappear
• How experienced developers evaluate opportunities and avoid common mistakes
• Why local knowledge and relationships create long-term investing advantages

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Supporting Resources

Connect with John McNellis

Website - https://www.johnmcnellis.com/

Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/@JohnMcNellis-CRE

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-mcnellis-b6a1674/

Connect with Jonathan Greene:

Podcast - www.zenandtheartofrealestateinvesting.com

YouTube - www.youtube.com/JonathanGreenere

Instagram - www.instagram.com/zenrealestateinvesting

Instagram- www.instagram.com/trustgreene

Bigger Pockets - www.biggerpockets.com/users/TrustGreene

Facebook - www.facebook.com/zenandtheartofrealestateinvesting

Jonathan's Hub Site - www.trustgreene.com

Brokerage - https://www.streamlined.properties

This episode was produced by Outlier Audio.