Host Joy Gilfilen speaks with Paul Levy, author of Wetiko sand other books on the concept of “wetiko,” a psycho-spiritual mind virus long described in Native traditions as a destructive force operating within human consciousness.

In this conversation, Joy explores how Levy’s work intersects with issues of justice, incarceration, leadership, and collective behavior. Levy describes how what he calls “malignant egophrenia,” or the “mad emperor disease,” can influence individuals and institutions alike, shaping patterns of division, conflict, and harm that appear throughout modern society.

Drawing from decades of study in psychology, spirituality, and quantum theory, Levy explains how this unconscious pattern can operate beneath the surface of our awareness—and why recognizing it may be essential to healing systems and communities.

We’re sharing this episode again as part of the iChange Justice Podcast March–April creative pause, revisiting conversations that continue to offer insight into justice, healing, and recovery. Episodes like this one invite deeper reflection on the forces shaping our world and the possibilities for transformation.

We welcome your thoughts as we prepare future conversations and explore bringing more discussions like this to the podcast.

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