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In this deeply meaningful conversation, I sit down with Dr. Lavinia Jackson — Chair and Professor of Art Therapy at Marymount University, scholar, educator, and one of the most important voices shaping the future of our field.

Dr. Jackson is the author of Cultural Humility and Art Therapy, a book that has profoundly influenced both my teaching and my clinical work. Her leadership has helped move art therapy beyond “cultural competence” and toward something much more human and honest: cultural humility — a way of being grounded in curiosity, critical self-reflection, and respect for the lived expertise of the people we serve.

Together, we talk about the origins of cultural humility, born out of the social unrest following the Rodney King riots, and how this framework asks us to move beyond checklists and techniques into deeper accountability — personally, relationally, and institutionally.

We explore:

• why humility is the foundation of ethical therapy work
• the difference between competence and curiosity
• how relationship — not information — is what truly heals
• the risks of disconnection in our AI and algorithm-driven world
• and how retreat, travel, art-making, and embodied practices help us step back, reflect, and return to ourselves

This episode is both scholarly and soulful — a conversation about integrity, presence, and what it really means to show up for others with openness.

If you care about creativity, healing, justice, and becoming a more thoughtful human and clinician, this one is for you.

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