In the twentieth episode, Robert and guest Ben Spak discuss the abstinence rule of psychology, a Freudian concept that encourages therapy clients to avoid external gratifications, such as smoking or idle conversation, to preserve emotional energy for the therapeutic process. The conversation moves fluidly from the technical abstractions of "vibe coding", web development, and Ben's project launchpad, builders.to, to the volatile reality of cryptocurrency rug-pulls and Robert's creation of a revenge token named "KASD" (Kill All scamming Devs). They examine the stark contrasts of their early lives, from Robert's impoverished childhood in Hollywood, dumpster diving for electronics, waiting in a line just to "see" the early internet, and a harsh encounter with Quincy Jones, to Ben outgrowing the mindset of a strongly conservative Florida town before moving to progressive Denver. Topics range from the technicalities of playing nine-string headless guitars and swapping memories of metal bands like Chiodos to the necessity of embracing AI tools like Cursor to avoid being "left behind" by impending technological shifts like AR glasses and brain-computer interfaces (BCIs). They explore concepts like the inevitability of history repeating itself and the merits of radical governance, debating left-leaning libertarianism versus the idea of monarchism, through the lens of staying sober, surviving personal traumas, and adapting to a rapidly changing world.

You can find Ben's project, builders.to: HERE

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